SP, MLRS and SPAA Developments

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

If I may, my ref. was only discussing the Army specifically in that article and your ref. is two years newer. I have a full appreciation of the Scandinavian countries need for coastal batteries that I believe fall mostly under their respective navies. And they do (And are.) rightly need to be in the game and updated as warranted for those countries especially since they're moving towards missile systems lately. Like I said just cleaning out old files.

Happy Holidays!!

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Pat.......we are NOT "missing" the 109A1...you are though

808 - M109A1 - Available 01/073 to 12/078

......and there is little point to

BRAZIL/ADD/M109A5+/COPY/USA UNIT 042/START JAN 2020/MG M284 155mm/L39/ROUNDS 36/SECONDARY M2HB 12.7mm w/500 ROUNDS//Improved FCS.

as FCS for arty is NOT modelled by the game. The only difference between that unit and the M109A5 is the "+"

.....and the 155 Chinese guns are already in the game as SP-1

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

To my last and thanks to my sinuses acting up, I've had time to think about the USA artillery issue as discussed in my last post.

We currently have in the game the M109 UNIT 040, M109A2 UNIT 041 and M109A6 PALADIN UNIT 042. The missing variants I've identified in my last post.

I think we need to add the following based on...

1. You have to have a beginning and we do in the M109 UNIT 040 so logically you need to have an end which would mean we need to ADD the M109A7 (Formally PIM.) with any modifications it brings to the series to the game.

2. We to have the milestone units where significant design changes have occurred. We do in M109A2 UNIT 041 which increased the ammo supply from 28 to 36 rounds due having the new M178 gun mount.

Also the M109A6 PALADIN UNIT 042 (Which again are ALL being converted to the M109A7 likely before games end.) represented the first major design change in Armor, Comms, Range and again increased the ammo supply from 36 to 39 rounds which are game related. There to be sure were significant changes its Electronics, FCS, Platform weight and possible performance which in game terms might lead to a SPEED change as well as yet to be investigated.

3. We have a very HUGE gap in time and are also missing a milestone unit that I feel can be fixed with a ADD of the "hybrid" M109A5/A5+ (As was done with the RUSSIAN T-72B3M/B4 UNIT 697.). The M109A5/A5+ successfully address..

3.A. The "bridge" we need to address the time gap.

3.B. The fact it's a milestone unit which marked the change with a M284 155mm/L39 vice 155mm/L23 gun, increased Range, ability to fire rocket assisted ammo, Optional 40mm Grenade Launcher, and FCS.

To summarize I think we need to ADD two units the M109A5/A5+ and the M109A7.

Also the M109A6 PALADIN will again, need to be changed by Dates, Ammo and SPEED. And again...
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m109.htm
http://www.military-today.com/artill...a6_paladin.htm
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m109a7.htm

Those are my thoughts as I start thinking about maybe getting some more sleep.

Regards,
Pat


Just saw your reply already understood about the FCS in arty which is why I didn't add it to the highlighted "descriptor/submission". I hope with the above, to consolidate those units and fix the USA OOB time gap.

[DRG]

Pat..... there is NO " time gap" in the M109 series

040 - M109 - Available 01/064 to 12/073

808 - M109A1 - Available 01/073 to 12/078

041 - M109A2 - Available 01/079 to 12/099

042 - M109A6 Paladin - Available 01/085 to 12/125

678 - M109A6 PIM - Available 01/114 to 12/125

there is continuous coverage from 1964 to 2025

and why would we need to add an A7 when you say the A6 PIM is the A7 ?

[DRG]

Trying to get hard info on in-service dates can be a PITA but it appears ( given some of these units were added to the game nearly 2 decades ago ) that the A5 and A6 were amalgamated into one unit since .....according to one source that actually gave some dates...... the A6 was not introduced until 1992 so the 1985 date is ( I suppose given I didn't add it originally ) to cover both the A5 and A6 with the new larger turret.

The A6 and A7 now have Bradly armour values and the A7 now has a 40mm ( subject to testing how that works in the game given this is artillery )

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the "time gap" so "up front" as I did, but thank you.

I still would like to take one last shot at entering in the M109A5/A5+ (Again we did this with the T-72B3M/B4) hybrid unit. This was a major departure from the previous versions.

If you put it in (M109A5/A5+) it would cover 1985-1995/97(?) overlapping when the M109A6 PALIDIN that was supposed to have entered into service in 1991/92.

Again if you agree to enter this unit, we can use it for Brazil as submitted and any other country that buys either of the two versions. We will likely see more foreign sales of the type before games end.

I will present it in a more focused manner...
The M109A5/A5+ is a milestone unit which changed the main gun to the M284 155mm/L39 vice 155mm/L23 gun of the previous versions, Increased Range, First to be able to fire rocket assisted ammo. From the Ref. already posted...

"M109A5: model with M284 155mm/L39 howitzer, which has a maximum range of 22 km with a standard HE-FRAG projectile and 30 km with rocket-assisted projectile. Ammunition capacity stays the same, however. (That at 36 Rounds.)
M109A5+: upgraded version with improved fire control systems." (FCS not game issue and not why I posted it.

Again remember why we entered the T-72B3M/B4 to consolidate it because the differences were minimal at best and to avoid confusion and having to ADD extra unit added.)
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/m109.htm
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/co...09_Paladin.php
https://www.janes.com/article/86155/...itzer-delivery (This will confirm my start date for M109A5+ as it stands.)

I've shot my "wad" on the M109A5/A5+ and with it I close the 2018/2019 Patch Submission Campaign.

I leave on the table for next year the following, T-84 OPLOT-120 (YAGAGAN)(Yes I've been tracking this and there's movement concerning it.) and BRADLEY fix (Thanks to the ABRAMS issues I found.) as my first priority.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t84_yatagan.htm
(It's been updated since this posting. Think very close to the OPLOT-M with a very good SB 120mm w/ ATGM.)

Don as always I thank you for your support and patience, was good "to get back in the saddle again" though unfortunately I have to watch where my horse trends as those "Rabbit Holes" are still around.

Andy and Don are in it to the "hilt" at this time and I just look forward to April/May to see how it all works out.

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

I put the A5 in 2 hours ago and all it really offers is a tweak toward "historical accuracy" game wise..not much........and any on map unit that fires >200 does nothing different than a unit that fires 200 because it is ON MAP and the only advantage of >200 range weapons is in counter battery and on map arty does not CB.

RA ammo is already in the USA OOB with the off map m777's

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Thank You! I haven't played the USA/USMC OOB in a very long time (Europe focused.) and thought we had a couple of OFF MAP M109 units which was why I pointed out the rocket assist ammo concerning the M109A5/A5+.

Now I can focus on "BREXIT" and how it'll affect my retirement funds. It could initially in the short/medium term get VERY UGLY!?!

As they say over there "CHEERS"!!

Love it when their Submariners visit to teach our "Boys" how to properly or not handle their drinking!

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

What I NEED to know for certain and any source I find is being coy about it is which model changed to the Bradley hull ---Not the A5 that seems clear what isn't is if it was the A6 or not until the A7

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I really feel like an as now that I forgot to use DID with all it's built refs. It made me rethink my web search I believe we got somewhere to a better place with the below.Alright one at a time.

M109A7/START JAN/JUN 2020/END DATE EXPECTED 2050+/BRADLEY COMPONENTS/UPARMORED//
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...nership-04039/
(NOTE: Look at MAY 19/14 USA INDUCTS/STARTS LOW RATE Production./JUN 7/11 NOTES BRADLEY.)
http://web.archive.org/web/201307210...sh2013/226.pdf
(DOD-101 ARMY Doc. OVERVIEW/NOTE: Second Para middle BRADLEY again/Read it carefully it says also they're built to keep up with the ABRAMS and BRADLEY. No SPEED given it must be pretty fast. As my last post Refs. showed they had more powerful engines progressively from the A109A5/A5+. Recommend SPEED adjusted accordingly but I wouldn't say as fast as the ABRAMS OR BRADLEY but maybe faster then we think.)
https://www.army.mil/article/146200/...witzer_system/
https://www.baesystems.com/en-us/product/m109a7

Work in Progress...

M109A6 PALADIN/START JUN 1993/STILL IN SERVICE/END DATE 2030+/SPEED INCREASE MIGHT BE NEEDED PER Refs. BELOW/THE CHASSIS IS A MODIFIED EXTENDED UPARMORED ONE USED ON THE FAASV/WAIT/READY/THE FAASV IS BUILT FROM THE ORIGNAL M109 CHASSIS.//
https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...und/m109a6.htm
https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...09a6-specs.htm
http://www.military-today.com/artill...a6_paladin.htm
(You have to be careful they tend to use initial production dates for START not FOC.)
http://www.deagel.com/Artillery-Syst...000544001.aspx
(Expected service to at least 2030.)
https://asc.army.mil/web/portfolio-i...ph-m992a3-cat/
(Conversion of M109A6 to M109A7 to have started in OCT 2017.)
https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/bnE043AA.htm
(The ARMY Plan.)

When you look at pictures of the FAASV and M109 you can see the resemblance especially with the now I forgot which, either M109A5/A5+ or M109A6 which had the chassis extended. Sad thing is when I posted on these not quite 10yrs. ago I believe, I mentioned that about the chassis

Don hope this helped I'm sure my EDIT CLOCK is running low. Does this mean I can have my M109A5/A5+ now!?! Yup right up to the end!!

Regards,
Pat