Survivor, a discussion on a MP game concept

[Jarkko]

Being recently reminded of my old heydays in Diplomacy PBM, I would like to find out if there would be interest in a sort of Survivor MP.

8 players join the game. This type of game really requires an admin who is not a player himself, so an admin would be needed too.

If at any time one player holds 6 or more capitals, then he is declared the winner. Starting with (for example) turn 20 (in Diplamacy PBM the first vote was after two years of playing) players have to vote (every 10 turns) for a player to be booted out from the game. The players send their votes in secret to the admin, who tallies up the votes and then makes them public (so everybody gets to see who voted who). The nation whose player got voted out is set to AI. If the voting goes on so that there are just two players are left, the six players who have been kicked out vote for the winner of the game (if neither player gets 4 votes, the game continues for 10 turns and a new vote is taken unless either has been able to take 6 capitals of course).

Failure to submit a vote would mean the player is automatically booted out (ie the votes are not tallied, but the player who didn't submit a vote gets the boot instead automatically).


This type of a game would certainly not be for everybody. At least in Diploamcy much drama did follow after the player in the leading position was voted out, and I would presume same would happen in here.

Maybe some sort of an "immunity" could be available for the first three voting rounds. Maybe based on the score-graphs (for example, players leading the score in dominion (this is the game called Dominions, after all ) would be immune during the first three votes (it can be different player on different rounds of course, depending who leads the Dominion score)), or maybe some province on the map would provide the immunity, or perhaps being the current holder of the Arena champion would make you immune. Voting rules could also be in effect, for example in Diplomacy it was customary in these type of games to not be allowed to vote twice on row the same player (and if you did vote twice in row same player, you got treated as if you hadn't voted at all, ie booted out).



Now, would there be interest in such a game? If there would be, some definite rules would have to be hammered out (because if the rules are a bit fluffy, lots of tears will be the result).

[Belac]

This would lead to the leader, or at least the top player without immunity, being voted out. I would assign each capital 1 vote, so players who were doing well had a better shot at remaining.

[Gandalf Parker]

Interesting. Worth adding to the game variants thread.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35083

It will grate on the people who prefer "proof of strategy" games only in Dom3 since some dont seem to consider diplomacy to be a strategy.
But I can see various strategies.

A) do I turn my neighbor AI because Im ready to rush him?
B) or do I turn the leader AI before they get too powerful?
C) do I let the leader get more powerful and THEN turn him AI?
D) do I buy a safety for myself from my neighbor?
E) do I buy votes to swing things the way I want it to go?
F) do I sell my vote?

Hmmm... come to think of it. This isnt too much different than games now. Its just faster. But in other games some of the same strategies happen. Just change "vote" to "NAP"

[Torin]

I would sig up to that kind of game.
The holder of the arena being immune is good.
Additionally there can be a rule that only indy unequipped nomage commanders are eligible to be sent to the first arena match.
Later arena contenders can use 1 item to match the latest winner.

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by Belac

This would lead to the leader, or at least the top player without immunity, being voted out. I would assign each capital 1 vote, so players who were doing well had a better shot at remaining.

Good idea

Maybe the immunity could be based on Dominions scale until first Arena happens (if ever). Limiting the Arena participiants might be problematic if there are any AI nations around by the time, and thus I'd not be too keen to limit that (besides, the more rules there are to follow means somebody might accidently break the rules, and all sorts of hassle would follow).

[Stagger Lee]

I like the arena idea. Arena needs a reason to exist. But isn't it too random? I'm in a few games in turn 30+ with no calls to the arena yet. If the frequency can be upped that might work.

If not, there are lots of categories to base it on. If the game admin is not a player, why not have him roll a random die for immunity based on the leader in in the following catgories:

1)Province count
2)Dominion
3)Army size
4)Research
5)#of caps held
6)arena champ (if any)

Random roll made one turn before voting, so nobody knows until then who might get immunity.

[Sombre]

Hmm. I think a major problem here is that you're actively inserting the AI into a game and generally speaking people don't want to play with the AI. Having the player stale out forever, or even for a limited time would be equally bad though.

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by Stagger Lee

Random roll made one turn before voting, so nobody knows until then who might get immunity.

Good idea!

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by Sombre

Having the player stale out forever, or even for a limited time would be equally bad though.

In fact, if the same goes in Dominions as did in Diplomacy on these sort of games, the "you are automatically booted out if you don't vote" rule hits suprisingly often. When people are not arsed enough to even send a simple vote, then they deserve IMO to be kicked out from the game. However, the possibility for somebody to be voted out could make the game much more intense, as Gandlaf above points out, with various "underhand" dealings going on.

[Frozen Lama]

lol. this would be a really weird game. airdrops all happen on turns that end in 1's. there definitly needs to be a whining rule. lol. sounds kinda hilarious