Archers,Precision & Shields

[Illuminated One]

Does a higher precision value help archers against enemies with a shield?
The manual says no, but in a battle my shielded troops have been decimated by wind-guided archers. Normally I could more or less ignore them.

[Nikelaos]

well precision will help but not directly, getting more arrows actually heading where you want the tends to get more past sheilds, also if the enemy archers have crossbows or arbalests they may very well be able to punch through a sheild that parries them.

[SlipperyJim]

Originally Posted by Nikelaos

... also if the enemy archers have crossbows or arbalests they may very well be able to punch through a sheild that parries them.

Actually, the manual seems to be pretty clear that blocking a missile with a shield is 100% effective. Melee attacks can punch through shields if they do enough damage, but missiles cannot.

The exception is a missile with a secondary effect, such as Sauromatia's poisoned arrows. Blocking a poison arrow with your shield still seems to get you poisoned....

[Edi]

Secondary effects are "on hit", so it's irrelevant whether it's a shield hit or not.

[Omnirizon]

Originally Posted by Edi

Secondary effects are "on hit", so it's irrelevant whether it's a shield hit or not.

so are flaming arrows a secondary effect? meaning the flame damage will occur even if the arrow is blocked by a shield?

[Nikelaos]

Originally Posted by SlipperyJim

Actually, the manual seems to be pretty clear that blocking a missile with a shield is 100% effective. Melee attacks can punch through shields if they do enough damage, but missiles cannot.

The exception is a missile with a secondary effect, such as Sauromatia's poisoned arrows. Blocking a poison arrow with your shield still seems to get you poisoned....

i'm afraid i'll have to argue with you there, the manual has an example where an arrow is blocked by a sheild but doesn't talk about it in detail, you will notice sheilds have a protection value, this value is exclusively put into action when you block an arrow/other ranged weapon .

(protection from sheild never adds on to body protection in melee, if you win defense vs attack roll in melee it's simply a miss)

[Sombre]

Man there's a lot of misinformation in this thread.

Shield prot value ONLY applies in melee. It is added to other prot values when the def as boosted by the shield is enough to 'avoid' the att, but the base defence without the parry bonus is not.

Missiles are parried by shields or not. Prot value of the shield is NOT involved. At all.

It's true that secondaryeffect poison on poison arrows still poisons the target even on shield parry. However it is NOT true that secondaryeffect always works on hit. Shield parries in melee work to prevent secondaryeffect damage from poisoned melee weapons for example, AS DOES BODY PROT.

Now this may not be the case with ALL secondaryeffects (in fact I'm certain it isn't), but it is the case with poison melee weapons.

[MaxWilson]

Thanks, Sombre. I've wondered in the past whether the AN 2 from D9 Death Weapons ignores shields or not. The data about poison weapons isn't dispositive w/rt Death Weapons, but it's useful.

-Max

[SlipperyJim]

Originally Posted by Sombre

Shield prot value ONLY applies in melee. It is added to other prot values when the def as boosted by the shield is enough to 'avoid' the att, but the base defence without the parry bonus is not.

Missiles are parried by shields or not. Prot value of the shield is NOT involved. At all.

In other words, I was right. I have resolved to read my manual more often, because it really does have a treasure trove of useful data.

Originally Posted by Sombre

It's true that secondaryeffect poison on poison arrows still poisons the target even on shield parry. However it is NOT true that secondaryeffect always works on hit. Shield parries in melee work to prevent secondaryeffect damage from poisoned melee weapons for example, AS DOES BODY PROT.

Now that's interesting. So if my base Prot value is high enough, I won't get poisoned by (for example) Tritons with Coral Spears?

Shield parries can block poison damage in melee, but not from poisoned arrows?

Originally Posted by Sombre

Now this may not be the case with ALL secondaryeffects (in fact I'm certain it isn't), but it is the case with poison melee weapons.

So a Bane Blade will still inflict Decay, even if you block with your shield? Maybe?

What about a Banefire Bow? Will you still suffer Decay if you stop the arrow with your shield?

[JimMorrison]

The Banefire's Decay effect is AOE, and will trigger whether the bolt is parried or not, so all units within that AOE will have to perform MR check against it.