OT: Bible Discussion (Split from Real World Sensitivities)

[SlipperyJim]

Originally Posted by Adept

This is a game for adults. Fundamentalists who insist on being insulted by everything should feel free not to play.

"This is a game for adults. Grown children who insist on being insulted by everything should feel free not to play."

Fixed that for you. As a politically-incorrect conservative, I often find that liberals and secularists lead the way when it comes to being offended by everything. But let's play it safe and leave the reference open to possibility. If you're easily offended -- whatever the cause of your offense -- Dominions 3 is probably not the game for you.

Yes, I'm an evangelical Christian. You'd probably call me a fundamentalist, although that term is often misused. Wikipedia has a pretty good article about Christian fundamentalism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_fundamentalism

As controversial as Christian fundamentalism has become, our actual beliefs are very simple. Basically, we believe the same things that Christians have believed for 2000 years. We believe that the Bible is true, and Jesus is who He claimed to be. Simple enough.

Gregstrom nailed it back in July:

I often think people use religion as an excuse to hate, rather than a cause. In the secular world, similar hatred and violence occur in the name of animal liberation or nationalism.

I agree completely. Anyone who hates "in the name of Christ" is not doing it because Jesus told him to hate, but is actually misusing our Lord to cover for his own evil. Haters are haters, no matter what their excuses might be....

If anyone's curious, the path to playing Dominions 3 as a Christian is also very simple. I just remind myself that it's a game, not reality.

[Adept]

[quote=SlipperyJim;639821]

Originally Posted by Adept

This is a game for
If anyone's curious, the path to playing Dominions 3 as a Christian is also very simple. I just remind myself that it's a game, not reality.

Exactly

[Tifone]

I really don't see the link between animal liberation and hatred/violence ^_^ Quite the opposite btw. And about secularists being much more easily offended than many religious people, I think you're totally wrong - both historically and in current society. But I think we're going faaaar off topic.

Originally Posted by SlipperyJim

Anyone who hates "in the name of Christ" is not doing it because Jesus told him to hate, but is actually misusing our Lord to cover for his own evil.

Before starting to answer, I would like to say that I'm agnostic and I respect everyone's belief until it becomes dangerous for my, or other's people, freedom and happiness and life. So I got no prejudice at all against any religion, I've got many friends having lots of different beliefs/disbeliefs so I'm not attacking your point from an hate-mongering point of view. Actually, I'm not attacking you at all, just reading an historical book for me, an Holy Book for you.

Said that, I ask you to just read, just for the love of talking, debating and learning from each other:

Jesus says (and I'm just quoting):

"If anyone comes to me and does not HATE his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—HE CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE." [Luke, 14:26]

"I tell you that to EVERYONE WHO HAS, MORE WILL BE GIVEN, but as for THE ONE WHO HAS NOTHING, EVEN WHAT HE HAS WILL BE TAKEN AWAY. But those enemies of mine who DID NOT WANT ME TO BE KING OVER THEM - BRING THEM HERE AND KILL THEM IN FRONT OF ME." [Luke 19:26-27]

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I DID NOT COME TO BRING PEACE, BUT A SWORD. FOR I HAVE COME TO TURN A MAN AGAINS HIS FATHER, A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, A DAUGHTER IN LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER IN LAW, A MAN'S ENEMIES will be THE MEMBERS OF HIS OWN HOUSEHOLD." [Matthew 10:34-36]

This of course, not to go into the Old Testament, as you were talking just about Jesus.

If you think I'm decontestualizing or exploiting these passages, feel free of course to read the entire chapter.

Peace

[JaghataiKhan]

No problem with all that. This is why believe both OT,NT and the third newbie, the Quran are just made up by religious leaders to hypnotize the masses.

http://www.luciferianliberationfront.org/arss_1.html

A parody chick tract with direct quotes from the Bible. Never thought Moses would capture 32000 virgins and SACRIFICE 32 of them as a burnt offering. Burn 32 virgins alive. Moshe.

Perhaps Gath's blood magic is a subtle hint to this...

[llamabeast]

Wow, they're quite surprising quotes.

In Oxford, the animal rights protesters have decided that any student or member of staff at the university is a valid target for violent protests. This includes English students and what have you. Quite apart from the unnerving threat of violence, every Thursday afternoon we have to endure loud protests outside our windows, which cause huge distraction. I'm okay with it really, but my two officemates basically can't work. We're doing computational work to better understand viruses in the theoretical chemistry deparment - about as benevolent and animal-friendly as you could hope for really. But the animal protesters can be heard around much of the science area.

Frankly, they upset me. I think it's excellent that people stand up for the rights of animals. But I'm not sure these people have really thought it through, and in particular I find their untargeted threats of violence quite despicable.

[thejeff]

Not to dispute you on the animal rights protesters, I have no idea what's been happening in Oxford, but what type of violent protests are we talking about? How many people have been killed? How many bombs?

I mean, if we're talking about "similar hatred and violence" to religion? How many animal liberation wars have been fought?

Nationalism, I'll be quite happy to concede to the original poster. It's all really just different ways for people to choose sides and pretend they're better than those other people so they can take their stuff. (Or for demagogues to convince them to gain a following.)

[Tifone]

Also, that nationalism is a prerogative of "secular world", sorry to say but it's just absolutely storically untrue.

Surely there were a lot of non-religious dispotic nationalist governments which committed lots of atrocities (Russia, Cambodia).

But also that two of the most terrible nationalist dictatorships of modern times, the German nazi one and the Italian fascist one (one of the first acts of Mussolini was the Patti Lateranensi, to make the Christian Catholic the religion of state), were both ruled by proven religious Duces who actually claimed many times to be acting on God's will.

This of couse proves, as SlipperyJim says, that if one wants to commit evil it can do it using religion too -it would be very false to claim Hitler and Mussolini did their crimes BECAUSE they were religious, as it is false to say so about STALIN and POL POT doing them BECAUSE they were atheists-, but it even disproves the claim that nationalism is something secular. At all.

Again, peace (sounds ridiculous maybe, but it's my sincere wish and also my best try not to seem a satanic jerk every time I debate on someone's religion )

[Tifone]

Originally Posted by llamabeast

Wow, they're quite surprising quotes.

I know. Many people don't actually know the religious book, it's ok of course, but what surprises me are religious people which don't know what they really believe in.
Don't misunderstand me! I talk with many people about their religion, they say they believe in the Bible and for me it is really no problem, far from being a problem, let's be friends maybe 75% of my friends are catholic btw

But when someone says that the Bible is the book of the Religion of Love, and that if I'm not a believer I can't have morality, sorry, hey, stop, I am a blood and bone marrow donor without expecting any Heaven for this, but I've also got 3 or 4 pages of quotes of the bible which actively encourage, and sometimes COMMAND by the word of god, killing of dissidents, genocide of women and babies, lapidation, enslavement of civilians, pedophilia. Of course I'm not saying that Christian people do that, OF COURSE NOT but don't come and attack me on the basis of a book you don't even know.

Sorry for the rant, we are just on the topic, again I'm not really saying ppl should stop believing, believe whatever you want if it makes you feel good and in peace with the others

@ llamabeast: of course, not talking about you, I don't even know what do you believe in ^_^ I just took the input from your words

[JaghataiKhan]

again I'm not really saying ppl should stop believing

It's OK as long as they don't worship the OT God. It is like Khorne! And shed that "I don't impose my faith,but..." face, any logical,rational human being would blanch at these verses...

[Tifone]

You can think that, and I think too that a perfect, all-knowing, all-believing God would not write verses so full of hate.

But I just think it's not right to claim I'm smarter than the millions (billions?) of Jews and Christians around the world, because I'm not of course.

I just hope they read their holy books with attention, and decide if it's right to follow what the religious leaders say them to do on the basis of those texts, and if they believe that the perfect God that they are worship is supposed to have written or directly inspired such things.

Peace (sorry, it's an habit now )