Inconsistencies among ABCA nations' troop quality

[simon9]

Apologies if this has been covered, this is my first time here and I can't see it anywhere.

I've noticed some inconsistencies where similar troop types of various nations have wildly different Morale and Experience mods. This may be caused by different people writing the OOBs for each country and not using a universal grading system.

First up, let me say I am NOT having a whine because my favourite Army isn't as awesome as I think it should be, or that I believe my favourite Army is the best in the whole world and woe betide anyone who tries to suggest differently. Instead, this is logical comparison of what I think most would agree are very similar Armies.

I will use the ABCA nations as an example. These nations (America, Britain, Canada and Australia) train extensively together, post members on exchanges to other ABCA partners, follow largely the same doctrine, and often fight alongside each other.

There are differences in each national army, of course - but I believe these are minor in the case of modern Western armies in general and ABCA nations in particular. Yet when we compare their OOBs there are major differences, usually in the Australian OOB.

I'll cite a few examles using V3.5 in the current month, Sept 07. To wit:

USA, UK and Aust have base Exp = 80, Mor = 75. Canada has 75/75.

US Rangers, UK Royal Marine Commandos and Australian 4RAR(Cdo) are similar Tier 2 Special Forces units. They focus on raiding, supporting Tier 1 elements, and in 4RAR's case, counter-terrorism. They train together and all have current combat experience in Iraq and/or Afghanistan.

Yet when we compare them:

Ranger Platoon: Exp mod = 15, Mor mod = 15
RM Cdos: Exp mod = 15, Mor mod = 10
4RAR: Exp mod = 0, Mor mod = 5

A few other units for comparison:

US Para Platoon: Exp mod = 10, Mor mod = 10
UK Para Regt Platoon: Exp mod = 15, Mor mod = 10
Canadian Para Platoon: Exp mod = 5, Mor mod = 10

Aust Para Platoon: Exp mod = 0, Mor mod = 0
Aust SASR Patrol: Exp mod = 10, Mor mod = 10

UK SAS Patrol: Exp mod = 20, Mor mod = 25(!!!)

Under this system, US Airborne troops are the equal of Australian SASR, while their Australian counterparts are the equal only of regular infantry! US Rangers and RM Cdos are superior to SASR (a Tier 1 SOF) and way, way ahead of 4RAR, their direct Tier 2 equivalent. UK Paras also outclass SASR. UK SAS and Aust SASR, which are VERY similar units, have 20, 25 and 10, 10 respectively.

I'm not trying to start a patriotic argument here, but I believe there is a strong case for the Australian OOB to be standardised with its ABCA partners. SASR should have in the order of Exp mod = 20, Mor mod = 20, 4RAR should be 15, 15, and Aust paratroopers 5, 5.

If these ratings are deliberate and/or this has been discussed before, no need to flame me! A simple explanation would suffice just fine thanks.

Cheers all

PS - I am aware I can edit my OOB to match whatever I want, but I'm talking about the standard OOB that comes with the game and the one most would use for 2-player games.

[KraMax]

simon9
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Glance also in USSR
In winSPWW2 at USSR in 1946 base exp. and morale = 70, in winSPMBT since 1946 experience becomes for some reason 65 though prior to the beginning of 70th years term of urgent service in army was till 4 years.

Always there will be dissatisfied people the OOB

[cbreedon]

Just out of curiosity, what formation numbers are you saying are 4RAR?

[DRG]

KraMax said:
simon9
-------------
Glance also in USSR
In winSPWW2 at USSR in 1946 base exp. and morale = 70, in winSPMBT since 1946 experience becomes for some reason 65 though prior to the beginning of 70th years term of urgent service in army was till 4 years.

Always there will be dissatisfied people the OOB

We have stated numerous times that winSPWW2 and WinSPMBT never have and never will be 100% equal at the 1946 cut off mainly because 1946 is included in WinSPWW2 for "What if" battles..The Russians AND the US were given 70 experience in winSPWW2 in 1945 for the final battles to the end of the war. Since that particular bit of code in winSPWW2 covers 1945-1949 just as it does in SPMBT they are given a bit extra experience for what is important in the time period represented by that game. WinSPMBT has nothing whatsoever to do with the last battles leading up to the end of WW2 so it gets the postwar numbers. It's strange you made no mention that in winSPWW2 the US gets a 70 experience rating in 1945 as well but in SPMBT in 1946 it's 65....same as the Russians....and for exactly the same reasons. Consider the little extra in 1946 an added bonus for the people who like to play "What ifs" because we could have easily made the cut off for WinSPWW2 Dec 1945. It is a more logical cut off for that game but we leave 1946 in WinSPWW2 simply because there are people who like to play "What Ifs" with the end of WW2 but have no interest in the modern combat WinSPMBT represents.

OK?

Don

[DRG]

cbreedon said:
Just out of curiosity, what formation numbers are you saying are 4RAR?

Yes, I would be most interested as well as there are no Australian formations with the combination of "Exp mod = 0, Mor mod = 5"

I can ASSUME you got those numbers reversed and are referring to formations 388, 389 and 390 but when I assume things somebody always gives me headaches about it somewhere down the road

Don

[Smersh]

There are lots of experiance morale inconsistances. The only way to really correct them would be to systematically look through everything, which would be alot of work. And even then I don't think everybody would agree.