eye shield

[Baalz]

Well, as I said, I'm not really looking for a counter for the SC, this particular one can be countered by undead counters, by life draining, by lighting, by making her route (there is only the capital left so she'd die), banishment to Inferno, by soul slay spamming or by a dominion kill. That's not really the line of my question, it's more what do you do in general against an eye shield and the answer seems to be avoid melee altogether.

[MaxWilson]

Lifelessness does not counter Drain Life, it just prevents the enemy caster from leeching back fatigue. This may or may not matter--for instance, if he's casting from an item he can keep going all day even without the fatigue leech.

I don't think regeneration is a real counter to the Totem shield curse, but as you say it's odd that we don't know a mitigator for the eye shield aside from avoiding melee. There probably is one if we could figure how the mechanics work, but even if there isn't, there's no counter to the Black Bow of Botulf either.

One more thing: I wouldn't say the answer to an eye shield is to "avoid melee altogether," so much as it is "avoid melee with SCs." Nobody cares if chaff loses an eye or two. Again, this bears a resemblance to the Black Bow of Botulf, which AFAICT also tends to scare off SCs. It also resembles the N1S1 spell Curse (no MR roll) and... maybe a couple of other anti-SC spells that I can't think of right now.

-Max

Edit: oh, yeah, there's no real counter to the Vine Bow. No matter how high your strength is it still tangles you for a round, although how much of a problem that is depends on what other equipment you're wearing. And although this is more of an anti-chaff spell than anti-SC, there's no real counter for Magma Eruption other than heavy armor. Fire resistance doesn't help.

[Yrkoon]

If the eye shield blinds when a blow is successfully blocked, how about using a counter with a high attack, or even a morningstar ? Burning pearl and star of heroes for example are easy to forge, I'm sure there is more items that boost attack.

Or of course one could use naturally blind creatures (earth elemental, agarthan blind lord if applicable) but that is harder to get.

[Baalz]

I think an air shield gives you reasonable protection from the black bow particularly since hitting a single target with a bow can be difficult even with a good precision. I know that my casters refused to cast either leech or drain life at a golem, I assumed the lifelessness was the cause but I may be wrong on that.

The problem is that stuff you don't care about losing eyes also is stuff that is more or less completely ineffective against most things which get magic shields forged for them. If sending even elite recruitable units in is a red slaughter, and sending in a SC is out....sounds like avoiding melee altogether is the plan.

[MaxWilson]

For whatever it's worth, in a quick test game I sent a Mother of Serpents with an Eye Shield up against an SC with an attack of 17, Prot of 16, Def 19, MR 18, Morale 30. The SC killed the Mother of Serpents in three or four hits and didn't take an eyeloss, so the eye shield is hardly a deathtrap for SCs. You could probably get away with using Wraith Lords or Wyrms, or any SC that will regenerate its eyes on the rare occasion that it loses one.

-Max

Edit: Whoops, I forgot that recuperating Wyrms is one of my house rules. Kraken or Tarrasque, then. Not like either of those is going to be available mid-game, though.

Edit2: one more datapoint--my SC had nature magic, and I forgot to script it, so when it was attacking the Mother of Serpents it had 99 or so fatigue (she rushed up to melee range but lost her serpents on the way to some Earth Shards or whatever they're called). But she had 136 fatigue, because the first thing my SC did was cast Sleep. I don't think that affects the eyeshield, but if fatigue did somehow affect the ability to use the eyeshield that would suggest a couple of obvious counters, like, oh, Magebane.

[Natpy]

Mb eye shild effect counts before awe effect? When I tried it with Dryad, it seem to me like this.

[NTJedi]

Baalz said:
Well, as I said, I'm not really looking for a counter for the SC, this particular one can be countered by undead counters, by life draining, by lighting, by making her route (there is only the capital left so she'd die), banishment to Inferno, by soul slay spamming or by a dominion kill. That's not really the line of my question, it's more what do you do in general against an eye shield and the answer seems to be avoid melee altogether.

Well I'm not sure what nation you're playing, but if available use the spirits from spirit mastery along with some blessed flageants while your mages bring the SC down with spells. Another option is use an assassin with an amulet of vegenance... as long as it's life is 15 or less it will most likely die. Yet I don't understand the focus of this one item... every SC can use a variety of items and the eye shield is only average since it only helps after an attack is coming and does not always work.

[Huzurdaddi]

Yep, that is my favorite thug shield. Pretty much eliminates using troops against the Thug. Great item for 10 gems.