Detailed Ground Combat

[dogscoff]

Did someone say detailled ground combat?

http://www.malfador.com/SE5scr021.htm

Of course, it's still in beta so that screenie might not make it into the release version, but fingers crossed!

[Captain Kwok]

I think Ground Combat will be here to stay.

[PvK]

There are actually three different places to put combat modifiers, with different results, and they are all used in Proportions mod, though it may not widely be known or understood. I added some descriptions in Proportions 3.0.5 to help explain, although some of them require some raciat traits to see (Elite Military, or Religious).

Placed on Vehicle type, the modifiers stack for EACH unit, and I beleive negative modifiers stack for each unit as well. Ten units means ten times the modifier, applied to the whole army.

Placed on a component as an ability, the highest value is used for the whole army, like Combat Sensors and ECM in the unmodded game. These don't stack... but they might if they were different types with different Family values - I haven't tested that.

Placed on a weapon as a weapon to-hit modifier, I believe they affect the firepower coming out of that weapon only, not out of the whole army.

Combined with the realization that damage is not applied simply left-to-right, I think this leaves more room than SJ suggests for diversity in ground combat units. Though basically ya, we're not given much to work with in SE4.

In Proportions I have:

Infantry - fairly cheap, has lots of damage resistance, not so good firepower, and good combat modifiers representing many small targets, ability to take cover, tactical flexibility, etc., but inability to mount large weapons. Has bonuses that can't be got from vehicles, so it helps to use both infantry and vehicles. Uses the required components to force them and only them to use the infantry components. Costs more orgs than other unit types - in Proportions 2.x they's fast to produce, but in Proportions 3.x the high org cost means they can only be built in good numbers on planets or at orbital construction bases.

Vehicles - have enough size to add large weapons and shields. Tend to have more firepower than infantry, and if shields are invested in, more damage resistance, but shields are expensive in rad cost which makes them a bit slow to build.

Artillery - Some higher techs allow troop weapons which have a lot of firepower but are large and don't give much damage resistance. Lots of bang but should be mixed with tougher troops for protection.

Elite Infantry (and in Proportions 3.x, armor) - Have a +1 offensive bonus per unit... so +100 elite infantry means +100 for the whole army to hit with, which can give empires with a weak ground combat aptitude a chance to do all right in ground combat if they invest enough. But elite units have a very high cost (in Proporitons 3.x, a high org cost).

Zealot infantry (Proportions 3.x, for religious empires) is rather cheaper to produce (they're volunteering for immediate action), but involves a stacking negative defense modifier on the vehicle type, which I believe results in a cumulative defensive modifier for the whole army while they survive. Represent fearless, wreckless volunteer fanatics.

PvK

[Captain Kwok]

Component 'To Hit...' modifiers stack with different family numbers.

I don't see much harm in having small bonuses (i.e. 1-2%) on troops.

[leo1434]

Tampa: "Star General"... I thought I was the only one on Earth who played a SG game from time to time.

A good example of a wonderful idea, wasted by a rushed release. I can only dream about what a great game would it had been. Is the only one I know where you can have space combat and besides a detailed surface combat, I hope SE5 will change this!

Returning to the "to hit" modificators, I was thinking I don't like very much to add up every unit modificators... but I think I will use those modificators in components instead that in Vehicles Types. I find useful that you can control the possibilty of being stacked (different families) or not (if the modifiers are originated by the same familiy component).

So my idea is to leave all hull sizes without "to hit" modifiers and to add a Troop or Crew (in case of bigger vehicles)component with crew quarters attribute and then activate the crew quarter requirement for the troop type hull sizes, combined with the "one per vehicle" limitation and the desired "to hit" value.

For example in an infantry VehicleSize (2 kt) you can add a "regular troop" (normal infantry) "veteran troop" (better quality troops, small bonus), or "elite troop" (the best, possibly for "military elitist" races only). This component will combine the ship bridge and crew querters attribute, the other 1 kT will be used for armament, some sort of flak vest or even protective armor suit will have 0 kt and be limited to "one per vehicle" also. Bigger vehicles will be projected using a cockpit (ship bridge), a crew (multi-place) component (which will take proportionally more space, for a two beings crew or higher number crew). By using scale mounts each type of component will be available for the right vehicle size only.

By the way, speaking about mounts, anyone tried to use a mount which have "tonnage percent" value of 0 (zero)? Will it result in a divide por zero error, or on the other hand will convert an unmmounted comp of, say, 100 kT in a 0 kt one? This will be useful for limiting the 0 kT protection components to infantry sizes units only.

[Fyron]

I do not think family matters for troop components...

[leo1434]

But... do you agree with PvK when he says that modifiers work different if put in VehicleSize (all are added up), that if they are put as an component ability (only the best used)?