Movement AI needs work

[AngleWyrm]

Maybe this has been discussed before, but it bears mentioning if it hasn't: I can kick the computer's butt with a simple player movement algorithm. This algorithm should be considered for inclusion into the next generation of Strategic movement AI.

It goes like this:
1. Examine enemy ship speeds and calculate closest approach.
2. Examine enemy weapon ranges and calculate nearest safe distance.
3. Approach to just outside nearest safe distance, then close to attack next turn.

As I said before, this tactic has won me most of my tactical combat scenarios against the computer.

In phase 2, calculating enemy weapon ranges, I take into account the weapons destructive potential. The math is simple: Multiply %chance to hit by damage at range to get ExpectedDamage at range. This measure of enemy damage potential can allow the player/ai to accept a certain minimum damage that won't pass shields, and assess whether the enemy can be destroyed first.

An additional result could be the creation of a new Movement Classification, called Best Damage Ratio. This would be moving to a range that has the highest FriendlyExpectedDamage/EnemyExpectedDamage, to be applied during phase 3.

[Phoenix-D]

The problem is if you both do that the fleets bounce back and forth endlessly and no one ever fires a shot..

[AngleWyrm]

Did you experience that outcome in one of your games?

[Frederick_d_Ohlmann]

In tatcical, yes. In strategic I think this cannont be use on fleet

[AngleWyrm]

It's getting in the first shot that makes it worth doing. I close to within the nearest safe distance and then go for the throat. Strike with everything you've got on the first blow at the closest range possible.

The computer is stupid. Do we wish to keep a stupid computer? Is it stupid because it's impossible to make it smarter? Have all the best minds already tried and failed?

And formation combat was demonstrated to be inferior to individual combat during the colonial wars that separated the USA from the UK. That remains true in this video game as well; formation combat results in poor use of range.

[Frederick_d_Ohlmann]

First, the main problem is NOT to have a good AI, but a good AI without too many work on it (because the game won't be sell at 163.520.444$) and without needing too many time on an average computer. In addition to that, the fact that movement don't use this trick help to give a little realism (in relaity you CAN't profit of a turn-by-turn effect)

NB : when I talk about fleet, it was not fleet strategy but individual strategy Even a fleet of 1 ship can't do that. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Phoenix-D]

This won't really apply to sE5 anyway since the combat is real time; this sort of trick doesn't work.

What I meant about firing a shot- well, start up the simulator and try it for yourself. Run both sides at the same time, and have both of them use these rules.

Say both designes are identical, to keep it simple for the moment. Speed six, range 8.

One of them moves to the "perfect spot"- 15 squares away. Now, in a normal game the computer would then happily move up 6 squares, making the range 9. Then you move in 6 and fire away.

Except this time its using this strategy. It also wants to end its turn 15 squares away..so it doesn't move at all!

[PvK]

You could add a -1 to the "ideal range". That gives the enemy the chance to fire first, but at maximum range, followed by the opponent closing in for better odds to hit with the second volley.

Really though there are issues with having ship speed per turn, and max range, such similar numbers, in a turn-based game.

PvK

[AngleWyrm]

Yes, this problem is one of granularity. In "real-time" games, the same situation is reduced to smaller steps, so that it becomes less visible to us. The range change is eliminated (removing the value of combat movement), but the first strike could reduce enemy firepower.

Simultaneous fire could make first-strike disappear as a combat issue, but I'm not sure that is a good model. First strike is an important characteristic of war, and to even the playing field by eliminating it's advantage is deceptive. Sci-fi explanations can be used to justify any point of view.

Movement during combat, the ability of a player to change the range to his advantage. If we redefine movement so that there is no advantage to the mover, then weapon range has less value. Fastest ship decides if they will have a combat, and the entire combat is fought at simultaneous range; that process could be simplified to just fight at best damage ratio range of the fastest ship.