How is the AI any better than before??

[Mephisto]

The AI is much better now, much more aggressive and competent.
The AI will surrender to you if you have 300% of their score. Reaching this score is quite difficult for me but then again you might just be better then me...
You seem to be some sort of power player (no harm intended). You did pick gas giants (somewhat unfair as most races use rock/oxygen and gas giants are - well- giants most of the time).
You take medium tech so you can bring up good designs with ECM/ECCM. The AI isn't using this due to a bug. So the AI has to fire against a +60% shift every time, you get a -60% shift all the time. Guess what, you hit every time they never.
And you make the tech very cheap so you can get in tech what you need. The AI has a script to work down and cannot adapt quite like you so again you give yourself an advantage.
You can find the MODs at http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi at the very top.

[Tomgs]

Actually you have to have 10 times the AI score for them to surrender 1000%. The AI is definately better with this patch but it is not perfect yet. I still wish there was a way for the AI program to react a bit more to provocation. They do declare war a lot earlier now but they still don't really press the attack. They do group in larger fleets and defend their systems some. But if you aggressively colonize in the early game you can outproduce them very quickly and swamp them with ships. If you give the AI a bonus they will be at a higher tech level than you especially at the beginning of the game.

[AJC]

the bug with the AI not using ECM and Combat sensors is easy to fix - just modify the AI design files to use the correct terminology for the ECM and Combat sensor components. In each race file is a AI DesignCreation file, i.e. Abbidon_AI_DesignCreation

dont forget to modify the file Default_AI_DesignCreation located in the AI folder.

the AI design files list the following capability :

Combat To Hit Add
It should read :
Combat To Hit Offense Plus

Combat To Hit Dec:
it should read:
Combat To Hit Defense Plus

Hint - *use your search and replace function in word pad - it makes this alot faster to correct*


As for the AI - it seems to me that it is doing much better - IMO one of the problems is it doesnt know how to capitalize on a situation, and the AI doesnt follow through with an offensive once it has started. It doesnt use the scorched earth policy a human player would use to degrade the opponents economy. The AI seems to focus too much on large ships - it needs to make smaller ships , i.e. Light Cruisers, Cruisers and battle cruisers to support some of its big ships. Too many large ships are a drain on the AIs economy and it doesnt allow the AI to build more fleets and provide an adequate defense for its entire empire. It seems that it can never field more than one or two fleets with 10-15 dreadnoughts before it collapses.

[Warlord Adamus]

I have always wondered why some use advantages that they know the AI can't handle very well yet and then get upset when they work. If you didn't want the AI to surrender, don't ask them. If you think mines are too difficult for the AI's to overcome,don't use them. AI too easy, why are its bonuses set to none ? etc. etc.

In a few of my games I disabled cloaking, computers,mines, and didn't use solar sails because I *know* the AI doesn't use them correctly yet. If you work within the current limitations you'll get better games.

[Talenn]

Hmm, well while the AI is definately better than before, as you point out, it still has many weak points. Certain settings and game conditions are not going to the give the AI a chance.

I would recommend the following:

Small, Midlife Galaxy

High number and difficulty of AI players...low Bonus...no 'Neutrals' (they clog up the map and interfere with the AI's expansion on a small map).

Low starting points, Average Tech cost, 3000rps but only spend 2000 or so yourself.

No trading of techs (the AI doesnt really benefit from it and the player will EASILY overwhelm the AI with the tech trading on IMO).

Given those settings, I find that the game is fairly challenging. If I get a perfect start its easy, but if I get one, I generally restart the game so that I can have a challenge.

Oh yes... and I highly recommend not using hte 'missile dance'. The AI cannot counter it and using it its fairly easy to kill AI Light Cruiser squadrons with a few Frigates and Escorts. It doesnt mass PD weapons at all and always gets into stern chases which is just nuts vs a missile ship.

Hope this helps,

Talenn

[evan42]

Thank you all for the advises on new game settings. I think I am gonna try some mods now.

I just want to clear sopmething up, in those 2 games I played, I never get to research ECM/ECCM. It's still too early, because I was only 30 turns into the game. I just got Light Cruisers in both of them. Also, my score was not 300% or 1000% of the AI, but maybe 200% to 250%. (only 150% to the 2nd placed AI)
And I only chose Methane/Gas in the 2nd game. I used Hydrogen/Rock in the 1st.
Also, another piece of info I forgot to add: I chose Organic Tech Tree, and yes, I did use "missle dances" (I just love those parasites).
I guess I will have to give more advantages to the AIs from now on...

Evan

[evan42]

I have been reading Posts here for a while, but this is only my first post.
Anyway, after reading everyone's responses to the new v1.19 patch, I just can't help but ask... How is the AI any better than before??

I have played quite a few games with the originally shipped Version, and found the AIs are weak (like it's so easy to miss it). And after the patch, I have played exactly 2 games. In both of them, I can still beat the AIs hands down.

I tried to use different settings, so in the 1st game I played, it's a Small Map with Difficulty set to High, and AI bonus None. Only 30 turns into the game, I have already colonized half of the map. And, in 2403.6 (36 turns into the game), the Phong Confederation had given me their HW when I asked them for a planet... I stopped playing the game at this point, because this is exactly the same as playing without the patch.

In my 2nd game, it's a Large Map, difficulty is High, and AI bonus is Low.
I found myself in a corner of the map with Cryslonite Imperium with 10 systems and one warp point connecting to the rest of the map. Since We are both Gas giants colonizing races, I had been very aggresive with them. Ok, they did put up a fight (kind of), but 30 turns into the game, my ships were already orbiting their HW, with me taken heavy losses (damn fighters). And then, I tried to ask them to surrender, although I expected them to fight until the end. Guess what? They did surrender! I don't think I will continue playing this game, because I am already twice the size as any of the other AIs.

BTW, in both games, starting resources is High, Tech cost is Low, Tech level for new player is Medium, racial points for new player is 2000.

In both games I played, they are over in 30 turns. So, I really would like to know... How is the AI any better than before??
Sure, they might seem to be more aggresive than before, but they are also as dumb as before. Do I still have to play with the "all AIs vs Human players" option turned on? What's the point of this patch anyway?

Maybe someone knows a different setting that will make the AIs more competetive?

Also, I have been reading a lot about those modifications to the game, but I don't know where to get them. Perhaps someone can show me a pointer? Thanks.

Evan

[Sinapus]

quote:

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Originally posted by Talenn:
Oh yes... and I highly recommend not using hte 'missile dance'. The AI cannot counter it and using it its fairly easy to kill AI Light Cruiser squadrons with a few Frigates and Escorts. It doesnt mass PD weapons at all and always gets into stern chases which is just nuts vs a missile ship.

Hope this helps,

Talenn

---

How does the AI handle ship types? Would placing a ship design that uses point defense as its main weapon in the design files help, or would that make things worse and you'll end up with fleets of ships that have nothing but point defense and no other weapons?

Trying to puzzle out the values for ship types in here and seeing if there's some way to set a certain amount of a particular ship type.

[Talenn]

Sinapus:

Yes, inserting a 'defense ship' with many PD weapons will help, but there is no guarantee it will use those ships to 'escort' the others etc. And they would be a total waste vs a race that ISNT using Missiles/Fighters although they would always be built. Its tough to work around this problem for the AI as players will be able to easily adapt and the AI cant.

Also, many times the AI doesnt even HAVE PD weapons until later in the game. Its very possible to win wars vs AI players without building a hull bigger than Frigate. Of course this is in no way challenging and I havent done so since the first few games I've played, but its still something I'd like to see taken care of at some point.

Even if multiplayer games Missiles are THE way to go in the early game IMO. DF weapons just cant compete until players are able to research PD weapons up. I am heavily considering yanking missile as a starting tech. I might put in a cheesey little 'standard missile' in to give some flavor but the basic CSM1 is far more powerful than the pea-shooters you can get.
I've also just gone in and added an 'Early PD Cannon' to my tech set and that has helped when its Human vs Human, but the AI is still dreadfully outclassed even WITH the PD on it's ships.


Talenn