lack of resource bug

tictoc · #1 March 21st, 2001, 09:03 PM

Guys, has anyone got a game going only using the 1.30 patch? I reported the bug to Aaron and he asked for a save game showing it, but unfortunatly i'm now using mephisto's mod in my current game and never thought of saving my Last game before modding.

tic

DirectorTsaarx · #2 March 21st, 2001, 09:26 PM

Well, I have a pure 1.30 game going (except for some tweaks to construction/production bonuses for planetary populations over 10B, which no-one's reached yet

). I'm at turn 40 or 50 (2404.x or 2405.x). However, I just looked in on all the AI players, and none of them are having resource problems. In fact, most of them are doing better at building storage facilities than I am, and you should see the production surpluses! One race is producing 170,000 (!!) more minerals per turn than they're using! It's really quite impressive.

[This message has been edited by DirectorTsaarx (edited 21 March 2001).]

Jourin · #3 March 21st, 2001, 11:20 PM

I have the mod pack loaded because the AIs fight better, especially the Xichung (all AIs should fight as good as they do). The lack of resources for the AI doesn't usually occur until near game turn 150 at least in the modpack. The AI is usually a terror in the beginning especially with a low or medium bonus, but if you can survive till turn 150, the AI strangles itself. The problem is not with production, but having no storage buffer and how the AI spends it; also found what maybe a bug. If you try to build a facility that needs 3000 points and can build with 1000 a turn but you only have 500, the game will use up the 500 and not do anything, it is lost without any gain. If you leave the queque turned on, every turn it will try to build the facility not have enough resources and stop, even though the two turns together were enough resources. If you put the queque on hold the resource is saved until the next turn and then you can take the queque off hold and build. The AI is not smart enough to do that. It will just leave it in the queque, it will never be built and it will just constantly burn up resources. The AI will also constantly try to retrofit ships with cargo. The retrofit will fail, but the AI won't unload the cargo it will just constantly try to retrofit and nothing will get built. I do not know if this also burns up resources. I can start a new game tonight - any specific paramenters?

tictoc · #4 March 21st, 2001, 11:43 PM

The game i played and got the resource bug at <50 turns was just a default game in a medium map, the racial traits and bonuses were as defaulted. I chose to play as the jraener race.

tic

Jourin · #5 March 21st, 2001, 11:48 PM

What caught my attention was during a long war with the modded Xichung. It was a tough battle and then it was like they just gave up and I walked over them. I went back to a save game and observed. They discovered a new ship class a battleship (I think) and then started a ship in every single space yard and base. The following turn, Lack of resouce, lack of resource, lack of resource. Next turn build some ships then lack of resouce, lack of resource, lack or resource and it would still try to build more ships. The AI would scap one ship and then abandon ships even the ones fighting me. The AI just died and became a cakewalk. If the AI had some storage capacity, I think it would have fixed itself. The storage capacity would have allowed it to build all the new ships and then it would start scrapping the older ships to get back in balance. But without the additional storage it did not have the resources for this mass ship upgrade and strangled itself. Also I do not think the AI can scrap more than one ship a turn but can abandon many. Maybe this is also a bug.

DirectorTsaarx · #6 March 22nd, 2001, 12:15 AM

What do y'all think would be an appropriate resource storage amount for the AI? As I mentioned in my earlier post, all the AI's in my game are building storage facilities; here at approx. turn 50, they're all approaching 100,000 storage of minerals (or exceeding that), with orgs & rads not far behind (70k or 90k).

Jourin · #7 March 22nd, 2001, 12:54 AM

From one option I recommended, which includes raising the empire storage number to 100,000. Also add in the Cargo Bay tech to the AIs research path and this capacity will double for later turn games to 1,300,000 for mineral, 500,000 for organic and radioactive

a. Get the AI to build storage colonies. I added a choice of storage colony and told the AI to build storage facilities
on all tiny colonies. (has not worked - AI has built no Storage Colonies) Although slightly inefficient its better than no storage facilities. However, I think the following
logic is better.

If atmosphere unbreathable and planet size Tiny or Small, then only build storage locations on these planets until a
total of 45-50 are built. Build 25-30 production, 10 organic and 10 radioactive. Build in the cycle order of 4 production, 1
radioactive, 1 organic, 1 production, 1 radioactive, 1 organic then repeat cycle. With the initial 100,000 empire
value recommended change, this gives a value of 600,000 to 300,000 to 300,000 and will cover all racial traits. Add
the Cargo Bay upgrades to the AI research tree and this gives the AI a good nest egg for those rainy days.

Lucanos · #8 March 22nd, 2001, 01:26 AM

There should be an option for unlimited storage space including no storage facillities/techs, in case you'd happen to want to play that way.

Marty Ward · #9 March 22nd, 2001, 03:11 AM

I think if the AI had 400 - 500 k of resources in reserve it would be able to survive for 10-15 turns of negative spending without putting itself into a hole. Having a reserve also allows the AI a chance to reclaim a valuable system or planet without going down the tubes. 100 - 200 k is just not enough.