A new AI Minister?

Noble713 · #1 March 20th, 2001, 04:47 AM

If this has been suggested before, I apologize. I don't stop by here as often as I used to. Playing SE4 as usual, and I started thinking about why the AI players were so bad, and I said to myself:

"Man, it's like their empire isn't run by one guy, but by 20 people that refuse to cooperate."

Then it hit me: this is exactly the case! The AI ministers! THEY are the root of the computer's strategic incompetence! Each one seems to take whatever it needs to carry out its one specific task, and it doesn't seem to realize that some other minister may be trying to do something more important. Maybe an "Overlord" Minister is needed. This minister would make large-scale decisions like establishing the AI state, selecting targets and overall strategies for wars, and whatnot. The necessary tasks would then be relegated to the AI ministers. Orders from the Overlord would be weighted, so the smaller ministers recognize their greater importance and handle them before their own commands.

Example:
AI declares war. Overlord instructs naval ministers to attack systems A and B. The defense minister had planned for a fleet to hold on the defensive, but gets overruled by Overlord. Fleet switched to attack minister control. Fleets break through and smash system A, but system B puts up a fight. Resupply minister wants to resupply the fleet in system A, but the Overlord recognizes that the Last system can still be pacified with the assets originally committed to the offensive (runs some combat sims versus known forces in target systems). Overlord overrules resupply minister, and the fleet stays under the attack minister's control.

Example:
AI is losing a war, and several systems are under attack. The construction minister is building population transports in nearby systems. These systems have been selected by the Overlord to reinforce the front. The Overlord overrules the construction minister and orders it to build defense ships instead.

Something like this would probably require an extensive rewrite of the AI code, but I think it would give a serious boost to the AI's cohesion.

dumbluck · #2 March 20th, 2001, 05:11 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Noble713:
Example:
Resupply minister wants to resupply the fleet in system A, but the Overlord recognizes that the Last system can still be pacified with the assets originally committed to the offensive....

Wow! You're giving the AI programming a lot of credit, aren't you?

jimbob55 · #3 March 20th, 2001, 04:24 PM

From what I can see in the data files, the AI almost works like this. There are a few problems such as the resupply minister not taking any notice of the destination of a fleet or colonising minister picking the furthest colony ship from the destination.

The 'Overlord' seems to be the algorithm for choosing the AI state. The only memory it appears to have is the anger rating. This makes for a fairly predictable AI, as long as you're not MEE giving the AI lots of stuff will make it happy. Maybe an extra variable (Contrariness?) could be introduced to provide a more long term and unpredictable factor into AI relations.

The lower level ministers could do with some sort of pecking order based on state. A minister of war should outrank a minister of resupply when attacking.
Colonising minister should search for the nearest colony ship to the destination. If there is an idle shipyard that could produce the colony ship and send it faster, then use that instead.
Minister for population movement should distribute the population using some sort of rule (never reduce homeworld below 50% max pop. If homeworld pop above 50% then ship population to planet with largest space available)

I'm sure there are other rules that would help the AI, but a memory would be even better.....

Lucanos · #4 March 20th, 2001, 11:43 PM

Noble's Idea is great, and should ALSO be used when a human player is turning the ministers on.

When the resupply minister wants to refuel you Alpha Fleet that you are planning to use for an attack next turn he should ASK if you want the fleet to ressupply.

Or when the pop-minister is trying to suck you homeworld dry, or when the retrofit minister is trying to retrofit your entire defense fleet so that it's not retrofitting just as the enemy enters the system.

nuff said

Suicide Junkie · #5 March 20th, 2001, 11:57 PM

Just give the AIs a "rubber stamp" mode.

If its in "Rubber Stamp" it assumes it can do whatever it wants, otherwise you do the paperwork manually:
"Alpha Fleet Needs supplies! Should we:
a) Resupply now
b) Wait ___ Turns before asking me again."

in a series of message boxes at the beginning of turn.

You can either let the AI do what it wants, or decide whether each thing it wants is good, but still let it do the "dirty work" of checking supplies/finding/moving the ships. The third option is to turn off the AI and do it all yourself.

KiloOhm · #6 March 21st, 2001, 02:53 AM

I'm not sure how this AI REALLY works. But what you said is exactly how a lot of games overcome the "strategic" problem. You need an overall AI that regulates the smaller AI or all activities are uncoordinated. It's a good way to overcome this problem and it lessen's the complexity of having one BIG AI. Having ministers is great, I'm not sure there is an overall AI (I suspect there is but it may need to be tweaked some).

quote:
Originally posted by Noble713:
If this has been suggested before, I apologize. I don't stop by here as often as I used to. Playing SE4 as usual, and I started thinking about why the AI players were so bad, and I said to myself:

"Man, it's like their empire isn't run by one guy, but by 20 people that refuse to cooperate."

Then it hit me: this is exactly the case! The AI ministers! THEY are the root of the computer's strategic incompetence! Each one seems to take whatever it needs to carry out its one specific task, and it doesn't seem to realize that some other minister may be trying to do something more important. Maybe an "Overlord" Minister is needed. This minister would make large-scale decisions like establishing the AI state, selecting targets and overall strategies for wars, and whatnot. The necessary tasks would then be relegated to the AI ministers. Orders from the Overlord would be weighted, so the smaller ministers recognize their greater importance and handle them before their own commands.

Example:
AI declares war. Overlord instructs naval ministers to attack systems A and B. The defense minister had planned for a fleet to hold on the defensive, but gets overruled by Overlord. Fleet switched to attack minister control. Fleets break through and smash system A, but system B puts up a fight. Resupply minister wants to resupply the fleet in system A, but the Overlord recognizes that the Last system can still be pacified with the assets originally committed to the offensive (runs some combat sims versus known forces in target systems). Overlord overrules resupply minister, and the fleet stays under the attack minister's control.

Example:
AI is losing a war, and several systems are under attack. The construction minister is building population transports in nearby systems. These systems have been selected by the Overlord to reinforce the front. The Overlord overrules the construction minister and orders it to build defense ships instead.

Something like this would probably require an extensive rewrite of the AI code, but I think it would give a serious boost to the AI's cohesion.

------------------
Regards,
KiloOhm

Lucanos · #7 March 21st, 2001, 11:09 AM

I assume you are brainstorming - or do you mean that there actually is a "rubber stamp" feature which I could turn on? Now? In the 1.30?