Imagine there's no Talisman, it isn't hard to do

[Loser]

First things first. This thread is not for discussing the merits or fairness of the Talisman or the Talisman ability in any sense. Please see another thread for that discussion.

So, take the Talisman out of the Deeply Religious tree. Now is that tree worth the whole 1500 points?

What is it worth?

What could make it worth 1500 points again?

Can it be made worthwhile without including pale imitations of the Talisman?

[Taera]

yes it is worth. religious is an awesome tech tree on its own, i'dbe taking it occassionaly if there wasnt the talisman. A religious player is supposed to be realy difficult to take out - any defending ship you put out is always better than the rest, and its difficult to run intel on you, and your producing more and faster of everything. Religious tree does not need the talisman, or anything else. It stands pretty well along all other racial techs, its just a different Category of such.

[Loser]

Originally posted by Taera:
... and its difficult to run intel on you,

I didn't think this worked.

Originally posted by Taera:
and your producing more and faster of everything.

How do you figure?

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Loser:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Taera:
... and its difficult to run intel on you,

I didn't think this worked.

Originally posted by Taera:
and your producing more and faster of everything.

How do you figure?

---

I don't know enough to know if one of the shrines you can build helps out in the intel field but in the other remark, I think he's referring to upping resource production.

[Loser]

Originally posted by Slynky:
I don't know enough to know if one of the shrines you can build helps out in the intel field but in the other remark, I think he's referring to upping resource production.

Oh, yeah, the Time Shrine. Of course. Good stuff that.

I'm pretty sure the previous one he mentioned was the Fate Shrine. And I thought the Intel-defense ability of this facility didn't actually work....

[ July 16, 2003, 19:11: Message edited by: Loser ]

[Fyron]

and its difficult to run intel on you

That facility does not work. What I think it does is to make the system that the Fate Shrine is in less likely to be selected as the target of a random project (when you select random planet, random ship, etc.), but that is it. It is no harder to succeed against a system with a fate shrine (even when the ability is modded up to 100 or so) than it is against a normal system. There is 0 effect on targeted projects.

There is also the Nature Shrine, which increases all planet values. I personally think this is the most powerful non-Talisman aspect of the Religious trait, as it is a lot cheaper to research (IIRC) and much more effective than normal VIPs.

[ July 16, 2003, 19:33: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by Taera:
Religious tree does not need the talisman, or anything else. It stands pretty well along all other racial techs, its just a different Category of such.

I agree that the talisman is a little overpowered, I just don't know how bad it is, really. And the religious structures provide plenty of bonus.

But I like the concept of the talisman. There was that cheezy attempt to revive the Bab 5 franchise, Legend of the Rangers. They all gathered round some artifact, shared some feelings, then locked it away as the spiritual center of the ship -- that was a cool concept.

I think the talisman should do something else. Like be a +90 % to hit, +90 % defence, maintenance reducer, whatever.

But like the Alliegence subverter, this topic has been beaten to death.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Arkcon:
But like the Alliegence subverter, this topic has been beaten to death.

and PPB, and PDC, and fighters, and missles, Ionic weapons, and Intel, and ....

Beating topics to death is what we do here.

Geoschmo

[ July 16, 2003, 19:46: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Loser]

Originally posted by Loser:
This thread is not for discussing the merits or fairness of the Talisman or the Talisman ability in any sense. Please see another thread for that discussion.

Beat elsewhere?

[tesco samoa]

I would make it a 1000 point trait then...

or even 750.

The 5 facilites are nice ... But one can do with out them fine.

( advanced storage should be 1500 or 2000 )