Questions on Small Arms - Soviet/Russia

[Suhiir]

While working in my Oct 1962 scenario I came across some curious things in the Soviet OOB that got me doing some digging.

As best I can determine the following weapons and availability dates are accurate but no doubt there are things I missed and/or inaccurate data. So if anyone has corrections please let me know.
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AK-47/(AKM) 1949-1974?/(1959-1974?)
AK-74/(AK-74M) 1974-Present/(1991-Present)
AN-94 (used in limited numbers too expensive for general issue) 1997-Present (not in current OOB)
====================
RP-46 LMG 1946-1969?
RPD LMG 1945-1969?
RPK-47 SAW 1959-1984?
RPK-74 SAW (still used by police and militia) 1974-Present
PKM LMG 1969-2011?
Pecheneg/PKP LMG 2001-Present
====================
RPG-2 1949-1970
RPG-7/(RPG-7D paratrooper model) c.1961-1988?
RPG-7V (Improved 93 mm HEAT warhead) c. 1977-Present
RPG-7VR (tandem 64mm/105mm)c.1988-Present (not in current OOB)
RPG-7V2/RPG-7D3 (same warhesd as RPG-7VR) 2001-Present(not in current OOB)
TBG-7V (105 mm Thermobaric warhead) c.1988-Present
RPG-16D Udar (range 500m(800m w/tripod)) 1970-Present
RPG-18 Mukha (range 200m) 1972-1990
RPG-22 Netto (range 250m) 1985-c. 2001
RPG-26 Aglen (range 250m) 1985-Present (not in current OOB)
RPG-27 Tavolga (tandem-HEAT, range 200m) 1989-Present
RPG-28 Klyukva (tandem-HEAT, range 300m) 2011-Present
RPG-29 Vampir (tandem-HEAT, range 450m(800m w/tripod and fire control)) 1989-Present
RPG-30 Kryuk (tandem-HEAT, range 200m) 2012-? (not in current OOB)
RPG-32 Hashim (tandem-HEAT, range 700m) 2008-? (not in current OOB)
====================
ROKS-2/ROKS-3 c.1935-1953?
LPO-50 (range 65m) c. 1953?-?
RPO-A Shmel (thermobaric, range 600m) 1988-?
RPO-Z Rys (incendiary, range 600m) 1988?-?
RPO-M Shmel (thermobaric, range 800m) 2003-Present
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I want to stress I AM NOT in any way suggesting changes to the OOB, I'll use the editor to modify existing units as needed for my scenario.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well let's call this an "Olive Branch" until I can revisit a couple of topics down the road. I'm enjoying this time off; World Cup, Body Armor research and most importantly catching up with the family. X-Men with the granddaughter on my weekend coming up-well that's just too cool (We got that THOR thing covered too.)!!
So anyway very good and accurate site and has been a good reference for me on occasion. Linked you below to his "about me page" which I've verified in the past. Research doesn't always start with the content it should start with the source. Or my Rule #1. Site is easy to navigate even for a "Devil Dog" like you!?! It'll cover all your weapons on the list. I lost another good Russian site when my system went down last Winter if you need it let me know and I'll try to recoup it for you.
http://world.guns.ru/about-the-author-e.html

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Yep, good site I use it as part of my research.
And you're right it's so easy even a Jarhead can figure it out!

No need to dig for the Russian site as I already looked up the weapons by their Russian names and got what I could find.

Don't forget the newest "Hobbit" movie!

[PvtJoker]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

While working in my Oct 1962 scenario I came across some curious things in the Soviet OOB that got me doing some digging.


RPG-7/(RPG-7D paratrooper model) c.1961-1988?
RPG-7V (Improved 93 mm HEAT warhead) c. 1977-Present
RPG-7VR (tandem 64mm/105mm)c.1988-Present (not in current OOB)
RPG-7V2/RPG-7D3 (same warhesd as RPG-7VR) 2001-Present(not in current OOB)
TBG-7V (105 mm Thermobaric warhead) c.1988-Present

First off, we should separate rocket from launcher:

RPG-7:

• PG-7V 85mm warhead, 260mm penetration. Introduced 1961. Launcher phased out of Soviet service or modernized to RPG-7V standard in the 1970s.

RPG-7V (sight PGO-7V):

• PG-7VM 70mm warhead, 300mm penetration. Range 500 meters. Introduced in 1969. Phased out of Russian service in the early 1990s, but remained the main Soviet export round in the 1980s.
• PG-7VS 72mm warhead, 400mm penetration. Ballistics identical to PG-7VM. Introduced in 1973. Still in service in the 1990s, might still be in storage, but not used by active Russian forces. Not widely exported.
• PG7-VL 93mm warhead, 500-600mm penetration. Range 300 meters. Introduced in 1977. Still in service and probably in production due to insufficient range of the PG7-VR. New sight PGO-7V1 introduced for launcher to accommodate the different ballistics. Older PG-7V launchers received an add-on conversion table for correct aiming. Exported after 1991.

RPG-7V1 (sight PGO-7V3):

• PG-7VL 64mm/105mm twin HEAT warhead. Penetration 600-650mm after ERA. Range 200 meters. Introduced in 1988. Still in production and service. Exported since the late 1990s.
• TBG-7V thermobaric round. Introduced shortly after the PG-7VL. Ballistics identical to PG-7VL. Still in service and production. Probably not exported.
• PGO-7V3 sight is compatible with all previous rockets except the long obsolete PG-7V.

RPG-7V2:

• OG-7V HE-Frag recoilles principle round (not a rocket). Introduced in the early 2000s. Range 700 meters with UP-7V sight. Compatible with earlier launchers.
• UP-7V sight (elevation only) for the OG-7V and to increase the max. range of TBG-7V to 500 meters.
• Compatible with all previous rounds except PG-7V.

All maximum ranges of HEAT rockets are for stationary tank size targets. Effective ranges to moving targets are about a third (33%) less.

[Suhiir]

Unfortunately there's no practical way to separate the launcher from the warhead in game. Thus the "RPG-7" designation used.

Looking at what you provided I see:

RPG-7 1961-1976 (PG-7V 85mm warhead, 500m range/260mm penetration)
RPG-7V 1977-1987 (PG-7VL 93mm warhead, 300m range/550mm penetration)
RPG-7V1 1988-2000 (PG-7VL 64mm/105mm twin HEAT warhead, 200m range/625mm penetration)
TBG-7V 1989-2000 (TBG-7V thermobaric warhead, 200m range/?mm penetration
RPG-7V2 2001-Present (PG-7VL 64mm/105mm twin HEAT warhead, 500m range/625mm penetration)
TBG-7V2 2001-Present (TBG-7V thermobaric warhead, 500m range/?mm penetration

[PvtJoker]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

Unfortunately there's no practical way to separate the launcher from the warhead in game. Thus the "RPG-7" designation used.

Looking at what you provided I see:

RPG-7 1961-1976 (PG-7V 85mm warhead, 500m range/260mm penetration)

I know there is no way to separate the warhead from the launcher in the game mechanics, but what I provided gives you the possible historical combinations, so an RPG-7V1 in 1990 might be shooting PG-7VM, PG-7VS, PG-7VL or PG-7VR HEAT rockets and it would all be historically correct for scenario purposes.

On the other hand, the above while not incorrect as such, would not be the most common option historically, since in the early 1970s the PG-7VM was already the main HEAT round in Soviet service and the PG-7V was being rapidly phased out (the PG-7VM and PG-7VS did not only penetrate more, but they were more accurate and less susceptible to crosswinds). On the other hand the PG-7VL did not supplant the PG-7VS very fast, since it had a considerably shorter effective range.

[PvtJoker]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

While working in my Oct 1962 scenario I came across some curious things in the Soviet OOB that got me doing some digging.


RPG-18 Mukha (range 200m) 1972-1990
RPG-22 Netto (range 250m) 1985-c. 2001
RPG-26 Aglen (range 250m) 1985-Present (not in current OOB)
RPG-27 Tavolga (tandem-HEAT, range 200m) 1989-Present
RPG-28 Klyukva (tandem-HEAT, range 300m) 2011-Present
RPG-29 Vampir (tandem-HEAT, range 450m(800m w/tripod and fire control)) 1989-Present
RPG-30 Kryuk (tandem-HEAT, range 200m) 2012-? (not in current OOB)
RPG-32 Hashim (tandem-HEAT, range 700m) 2008-? (not in current OOB)

Let's do the disposable launchers and RPG-29 next. If someone thinks this is nitpicking, be free to feel so. This is just for reference:

RPG-18: penetration 300mm. Manufactured for export until 1993, in Russian service at least until late 1990s.

RPG-22: penetration 400mm. Introduced in 1980. Manufactured for export until 1993, in Russian service well into the 2000s.

RPG-26: penetration 450mm.

RPG-27: penetration 600-650mm after ERA. Has the same warhead as PG-7VR and PG-29V.

RPG-28: penetration 900-1000mm after ERA.

RPG-29: penetration 600-650mm after ERA. Basic model range with optical sights usually quoted as 500 meters by Russian sources. TGB-29V thermobaric warhead rocket available since early(?) 2000s. Number of launchers with laser RF and computerized FC in Russian service unknown, but probably not very large.

RPG-30: RPG-27 with an Active Protection System defeating decoy target. This feature can't be modeled in the game as far as I know.

RPG-32: 72mm or 105mm HEAT and thermobaric rockets (4 different types in total). Penetration 450mm with 72mm and 650mm after ERA with the 105mm HEAT rockets. Disposable launch tube with a reusable optical sight. Often quoted range of 700 meters seems highly optimistic for the 105mm rocket (PG-29V only 500 meters with similar weight) and may actually refer to the thermobaric and/or 72mm rockets only. Developed for Jordania and status in Russian service unknown.

Again, all effective ranges are against stationary tank size targets and all penetrations against RHA.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by PvtJoker

On the other hand, the above while not incorrect as such, would not be the most common option historically, since in the early 1970s the PG-7VM was already the main HEAT round in Soviet service and the PG-7V was being rapidly phased out (the PG-7VM and PG-7VS did not only penetrate more, but they were more accurate and less susceptible to crosswinds). On the other hand the PG-7VL did not supplant the PG-7VS very fast, since it had a considerably shorter effective range.

Good points!

[PvtJoker]

Originally Posted by PvtJoker

RPG-7V1 (sight PGO-7V3):

• PG-7VL 64mm/105mm twin HEAT warhead. Penetration 600-650mm after ERA. Range 200 meters. Introduced in 1988. Still in production and service. Exported since the late 1990s.

Should of course() be PG-7VR. Sorry about the brain fart.

[PvtJoker]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

While working in my Oct 1962 scenario I came across some curious things in the Soviet OOB that got me doing some digging.

As best I can determine the following weapons and availability dates are accurate but no doubt there are things I missed and/or inaccurate data. So if anyone has corrections please let me know.
########################################
AK-47/(AKM) 1949-1974?/(1959-1974?)
AK-74/(AK-74M) 1974-Present/(1991-Present)
AN-94 (used in limited numbers too expensive for general issue) 1997-Present (not in current OOB)
====================
RP-46 LMG 1946-1969?
RPD LMG 1945-1969?
RPK-47 SAW 1959-1984?
RPK-74 SAW (still used by police and militia) 1974-Present
PKM LMG 1969-2011?
Pecheneg/PKP LMG 2001-Present

Now for the actual small arms:

AK-47/AKM: 1949-1950 only small scale production for elite units such as paratroopers. Actual start of mass production (AK-47) in 1951. Production of AKM for the Red Army ended in the mid-1970s, but it remained in service for second and third line units until the collapse of Soviet Union (1991). Large numbers are still in storage.

RP-46: the dates are correct, but it must be noted that the belt-fed RP-46 did not immediately replace the magazine-fed DPM as a squad LMG. DPM remained in service as long as bolt-action rifles were used by second-line units, that is at least until mid-1950s.

RPD: mass production from 1949, concurrently with the SKS. Units armed with the SKS were issued with RPDs even in the 1970s and 1980s (yes, the SKS was still in limited service).

RPK: mass production from 1961. Remained in service in the units issued with AKMs until the collapse of Soviet Union. Still in storage with AKMs. (By the way, RPK-47 is absolutely the wrong name for this weapon. It was the contemporary of AKM and designed a decade later than the original AK-47.)

RPK-74: still officially used by "line infantry", although increasingly replaced by the Pecheneg.

PK(M): PK manufactured since 1961, PKM since 1969. PKM is still in service as a GPMG, since the Pecheneg is not issued with a tripod (although it can be mounted on one) and it lacks a quick change barrel.