Soviet bazooka teams

[keif149]

Greetings,

Playing a pbem ME in May 1942, with pc picks for Germans vs Soviets. I’m seeing Soviet bazooka teams and I see in the Soviet oob they are available from January 1943 till December 1944. Anything abnormal here or did the Soviets “borrow” some from the shipment that went to North Africa for Operation Torch?
They work very well against my Pz IIIj’s.
Not complaining, just an observation.

[DRG]

a quick look at wiki tells us this

World War II[edit]
Secretly introduced via the Russian front and in November 1942 during Operation Torch, early production versions of the M1 launcher and M6 rocket were hastily supplied to some of the U.S. invasion forces during the landings in North Africa. On the night before the landings, Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower was shocked to discover from a subordinate that none of his troops had received any instruction in the use of the bazooka.[17]

and then there is this

Although the russian military was reportedly not very enthusiastic about the lend-lease Bazookas which they had received in little numbers in 1943, they took a liking to the bigger Panzerschreck and the late-war Panzerfaust types.

and this

Soviet Bazookas
March 5 2003, 5:14 AM
The Red Army did receive the bazooka under Lend Lease. In fact the Ordnance office G.B. Jarrett claimed that German captures of early batches sent the Russians in 1942 was the origin of the German panzerschreck.I'm not sure how many were sent, but the number was relatively small as they only were sent 8,500 rounds of rockets. I've never seen a photo of one in Red Army service.

and that's why they are in there


Don

[PvtJoker]

Originally Posted by DRG

a quick look at wiki tells us this

and that's why they are in there


Don

If the number of 8,500 rockets total is correct, the availability probably should not be two full years... More like 6 months would seem more realistic and still not overly conservative.

[DRG]

Not a lot of info so no matter what we do it's guessing and I'm guessing if they were still around during Zitadelle we might have heard about it so June 1943 seems more than reasonable


Don

[Pibwl]

I've found a text some forum:

Всего Красная Армия получила до 9 000 базук в конце 1942 года [1]. В последующие годы поставки не производились, поэтому с новейшими образцами немецкой бронетехникой приходилось бороться при помощи противотанковых ружей, противотанковых гранат (хотя и довольно мощных) и бутылок с зажигательной смесью. (...)

1. G.Rottman, S.Noon "World War II infantry anti-tank tactics"

In short, according to writer, up to 9 000 bazookas (!) were received at the end of 1942 [1]. There were no further deliveries.

According to other forum:

В СССР было поставлено 3000 пусковых, 8500 боевых ракет и 1605 практических.

3000 launchers, 8500 rockets and 1605 practice rockets.

Other forum:

В 1941-44 гг. по ленд-лизу поступило

- 13,97-мм противотанковых ружей "Бойс" - 200;
- 29-мм мортир "Спигот" - 250;
- ПИАТ- 831 шт.
- 60-мм реактивных ружей - 1000; еще 550 в 1944 г.

- 1000 + 550 (and 200 Boys, and 831 Piat)

[Ts4EVER]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the soviets regarded the bazooka more as engineering equipmnt than an at weapon.

[DRG]

That forum Michael found includes a photo ( not good but still a photo ) of what seems to be Russian troops jumping from a small boat across what appears to be a river and the text of one comment

..Lay in storage until they were removed to arm the advanced units in crossing the Vistula

that photo would seem to support that so it *may* be that the initial trials with the first batches didn't go well and they were put in storage until someone decided we might as well use them for the Vistula assault

Of course I'm guessing...... but right now I'm guessing the original dates we had in the game are just as valid as anyone else's guess on a subject that is now about 70 years old

Don

[DRG]

more

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../bazooka-1.htm

At the first demonstration in Washington, DC, in May 1942, Soviet observers had requested bazookas. Consequently, a large shipment arrived in the USSR about the same time as the arrival of the shipment to Egypt. The Red Army was supplied with this weapon to use on the Eastern Front against the Germans.

so what we know more or less "for sure" is the Russians got them at about the same time they arrived in N.Africa and they didn't like them all that much. They may or may not have sat in storage until they were given to assault troops ( AKA " cannon fodder" ) crossing the Vistula but *IF* that is indeed the case then the date in service needs to be extended to at least Febuary 1945.

one " creative" way to handle this would be to create a second unit so that one unit would be active only in early 1943 and the second only active in early 1945 but I think I'm just going to stick with one but extend it to Feb 1945 to cover the Vistula crossing

[gila]

After this discussion,it seems this boils down to a rarity issue.
OP is saying in essence, that he is surprised the bazooka were so readily available in the soviet oob at that time.
Just my butt-in observation.

[keif149]

Thanks for all the research. As mentioned, I was NOT complaining ;-) I even fabricated a believable story why there were in a 1942 battle while the oob editor says January 1943.

However, my opponent after reviewing his set up notes, told me the battle is indeed in May 1943, so the pick list corresponds to the oob editor correctly.

Carry on.