Congo 1964

Miketee10022 · #1 November 18th, 2012, 06:21 AM

Hi - I noticed there is no flag for the Congo in 1964, nor any OOB associated with Congo. Given how much combat has occurred there since 1960 (and is still going on today!) I think it makes sense to add the Congo to the overall Force Mix of SP MBT. As an example, the US, instead of invading S. Vietnam in '64-'65 was seriously considering putting its weight behind a full scale invasion of Congo. And then, of course, there was the Stanleyville hostage rescue in '64. Yes, there is the Dragon Rouge scenario in SP MBT but it is not terribly accurate.

Just a thought...and a question: Any chance that in the next version of SP MBT there will be a Congolese OOB and flag?

DRG · #2 November 18th, 2012, 09:15 AM

None whatsoever.

Don

Miketee10022 · #3 November 18th, 2012, 06:03 PM

OK - thank you for the clarity.

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #4 November 19th, 2012, 03:17 PM

I thought yesterday afternoon I'd provide a different answer until I hit the "search" button instead of the "spell check" at the end, the result wasn't good, don't hit the "search" button. So for GP the issues a little more complex. First there are only 7 OOBs left open, these are being used for R&D game and software testing etc. The other issue many of the OOBs are rapidly approaching "critical mass" with having ~50 or less slots (U.S. and Russia are at less than 30 slots now.). This summer I went back to school and learned some things about the game. In general terms once something is entered in the game in mass it's very difficult to remove it. I'm probably the biggest proponent of air power in the game (In the sense that I post on it often.) as is also well known I see this as truly the best Combined Arms game out there. So when the issue was raised a couple of years ago I offered the solution of removing a whole "class" of equipment the Fighter jets (From about the early 60's when fighter bomber variants became more prevalent to the present and future inclusions. This would not have affected smaller nations that depend on them for all aspects of an air war.) as in the case of the U.S. and Russia I believe would've freed up around 60+ slots each. As I found out this would have been a large project involving around 10-15 OOBs, removal from all the campaigns and scenarios and the affect it would have on those in designing the aforementioned and any future mods so yes there are software issues here as well.
We have including the one for 2013 a total of 9 patches to go (Need 2021 to include equipment that will come online in 2020 such as the F-35 for some if at all among others.) that's game world limited for now. Real World though new equipment will still be made available, the major push is to extend the life cycle of existing equipment and improve them. At the current rate back to both worlds is the U.S. and Russian OOB's will be filled in three years or patches if you will. We all know to add a piece of equipment there's a slot taken, the more variants added the same is true, change a piece of equipment (Armament, Sensors etc.) you could again be using several slots to accommodate those changes i.e. all current USA/USMC ABRAMS to get a new Main Gun THAT'S ROUGHLY ~12 SLOTS just for the USA!!
What to do? Well Don posted when I first submitted my Fighter removal suggestion that Andy and him are trying to find a solution so I leave it to them. For my part I'm not going to submit Air Superiority Fighters that think they're Fighter Bombers as well, they're not as most have inadequate ground attack sensors if any at all to the larger countries that have more then adequate Fighter Bomber capabilities and Level Bombers. Since the F-35 and PAK/FA aren't operational yet I would love to see them go. The F-22 is entrenched but it's a much better jet anyway that's as we speak getting much better all around, don't take my word for check the web.
I'll narrow my focus as well in MRAPS, Utility type attack vehicles as well. That's all I can do well, I won't bother about TRUCKS ether!?!
That's the broad general situation and the dilemma for us "equipment folks", designers and HQ in Canada and Scotland.

All the best to everyone and for the many others please have a safe and Happy Thanksgiving!!

Regards,
Pat

Miketee10022 · #5 December 4th, 2012, 01:31 AM

Thanks for the added comment and in-depth essay as to the complexities of adding weapons systems to SP MBT!

troopie · #6 December 4th, 2012, 04:16 PM

In one of the Red Orbats there are Simbas for the 1960s Congo. The ANC of the 1960s was organised similarly to the Belgian army, save with older weapons, fewer heavy weapons and poorer discipline. The Mercenaries were organised variously, the 4 and 5 Commando IIRC folowed British procedure, 6 Commando followed French procedure, 14 Commando followed Belgian procedure.

Official guerrilla TOEs should not be taken too seriously. Guerrillas, here the Simbas, Kasais, Katangese tend to be armed with what they can get from whoever. The Simbas did have some older Chinese weapons.

troopie

centurion77 · #7 December 7th, 2012, 06:33 AM

How about making a set of flags (Congo, Biafra, etc.) and Mods that we can add and remove personaly as needed?
So no need to occupy slots, just overwrite.
I could just create the needed flags, but I can't 'draw' on a computer....

Miketee10022 · #8 December 31st, 2012, 07:43 AM

Thanks for the added posts. Is it possible to overwrite a given nation's orbat entirely? Thus - if we come up with a Congolese flag, can we overwrite - say - Bosnia Herzegovina or something?

I have a friend - a fairly accomplished military historian and game designer - who is compiling a very detailed orbat for both the Congolese themselves (Simbas, ANC, etc.) and the mercs for the period of the early to mid sixties. Once we have our OOB's in order, I'd love to be able to offer it here.

Also - the ability to replace one nation's orbat with another brings up some interesting possibilites. I am thinking in terms of creating several different games of SP MBT built around regions - Africa, S. America, Europe, Asia. So I await any feedback on this.

Warhero · #9 December 31st, 2012, 07:48 AM

Well how about using Red or Green for Congo (maybe with right flag)?

wulfir · #10 January 1st, 2013, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miketee10022

So I await any feedback on this.

A word of caution - building working OOBs is harder than it looks at first glance.

I'd advise you to talk to the pro's before you get going, might save you some time. You'll be in for a lot of work nevertheless, just finishing that Congo OOB is going to take you some time, nevermind replacing the mix of countries with obscure nations from say Africa or South America.

You've got to be dead certain why you yourself want this too - because you'll likely do almost all the work yourself. Maybe you'll be the only one using these OOBs in the end too...

...the big idea about several versions of the game encompassing a load of various countries sounds overwhelming to me. Building just the Congo OOB might be doable...

...but what do I know, you might be an induvidual with extreme drive and staying power.