mI-8 / mI-24 in German Service

[DRG]

Does anyone have any info to confirm that East German Mi-8 and Mi24's were actually operated by the FRG for a short period of time after reunification ?

Mi-8 until 1997
Mi-24 until 1993

??

Germany (post-reunification)
With the re-unification of Germany in 1990 the separate air forces of the old East Germany and West Germany were united in the new Luftwaffe. The new Luftwaffe evaluated the Hind and it was briefly operated by two Germany Army Aviation Squadrons, Heeresfliegerstaffel 79 and Heeresfliegerstaffel 80, before being retired from service. Some of the aircraft were sold to Hungary and Poland and two to the USA for evaluation purposes.

The dates are from Wiki the quote is from HERE



Don

[PopskiPPA]

I can confirm the operation of Mi-8 by the FRG after reunification. Saw the military raffle off free flights in Hueys and Mi-8s. (Won flights in both, but gave the Mi-8 flight to a buddy who didn't win)
Sorry can't remember the exact year, definitely after '92.

[DRG]

Thanks

If anyone has any info on the Hinds and how they may have been armed it would be very helpful

Don

[Pibwl]

Mi-24s were probably used for a short time only. Polish article claims (without details), that they were repainted, but soon were stored. In 1995 or before that date part were given to Hungary, then part to Poland.

Considering this, I'm sure, that they retained their original armament - Western rockets would need some integration, while S-8 80mm rockets were very good, and S-5 57mm were satisfactory. As for missiles, the Germans probably didn't bother with Falanga of Mi-24D, but Shturm might still be interesting in early 90s.

By the way, as for East German OOB:
122 Mi-24 Hind-A - I haven't heard about Mi-24A in Germany. Date 1/71 is unbelievable, since in 1970-71 they started to appear in USSR. Wrong picture BTW.

123 Mi-24 Hind-E - correct designation Mi-24P (Hind F, BTW). According to a mentioned Polish article, delivered only from 1988 (1/86). All Mi-24s could carry 4 missiles and 128 x S-5 57mm rockets (4x32) at a time - in the game they usually have less - this one has 32. There aren't seen smaller launchers, than 32-tube, at all.

124 Mi-24 Hind-D - correct designation Mi-24D. Same about 57mm rockets, as above.

125 Mi-24 Hind-D - correct designation Mi-24W (Hind E, BTW). Same about 57mm rockets.

920-928 - same units, with wrong Hind names, and different armament. As for 80mm rockets, they could carry 80 (4x20) - they have 40.

I've just checked German Wiki http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-24 and it says, that Mi-24D were used from August 1978 (now 1/77). No mention on Mi-24A. If anybody speaks German:

Nach der Wiedervereinigung wurden einige Maschinen bei der WTD61 (Wehrtechnische Erprobungsstelle) der Bundeswehr erprobt, je eine Mi-24D und P ging zur Feinddarstellung an die US-Armee. Die restlichen wurden bei der HFS Ost und HFS 80 (Heeresfliegerstaffel) im nichtregulären Dienst geflogen und schließlich am 14. September 1994 außer Dienst gestellt.

[Pibwl]

One more thing: 123 Mi-24 Hind-E has icon of Mi-24A. Seems, that camouflaged ones will be more appropriate anyway - 3487 for Mi-24D and W, 3491 for P - photo http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:M...8Berlin%29.jpg

Michal

[PopskiPPA]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

I've just checked German Wiki http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-24 and it says, that Mi-24D were used from August 1978 (now 1/77). No mention on Mi-24A. If anybody speaks German:

After the reunification some craft were evaluated by the Bundeswehr, one Mi-24D and one P were given to the US-army as OPFOR.
The rest was flown in non-regular duty and finally retired on the 14th of September 1994.

[DRG]

I'll leave the Hinds out

Don

[Pibwl]

I've just found an article on German Mi-24 in Polish Aeroplan 3/2004. It lists all helicopters and it appears, that East Germany didn't use Mi-24W/V at all! After Mi-24D there were Mi-24P delivered, but only from 1989 (we have 1988 now - unit #123). Also German Wikipedia don't mention German Mi-24W and says:

Der erste von zwölf Mi-24P kam am 15. Dezember 1989 zum Geschwader.

I'm not sure of translation, but it seems, that the first of 12 Mi-24P went into a regiment on 15 December 1989(?).

Units 920-928 need correction as well:

920, 923, 928 Mi-24P - first date as above

921, 922 Mi-24D - should have #149 Falanga missiles instead of 9M114.

924 Mi-24D - first date 8/78 as unit #124

927 Mi-24W - should be renamed to Mi-24D

However, I can't confirm 80mm rockets nor 122mm rockets on German Mi-24. All photos known to me show them with 57mm ones.

Michal

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Here's your translation...
"The first of twelve Mi-24P came on the 15th of December 1989 to the Geschwader.", Geschwader is the Luftwaffe term for a "Wing" used together a Luftwaffe Wing. So you also above have the date they got them.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Here's a video showing the Hind with Luftwaffe markings/camo scheme being flown. They actually had them until (Checking dates.) sold to Poland and Hungary. Luftwaffe JG 73 flew the MiG-29G (NATO standard.) until ~2004 when they were sold to Poland. JG 73 flew them as an aggressor squadron but was also assigned an air defence role as well. Many of the former DDR aircraft flew with the Luftwaffe for years especially the transport aircraft that filled a deficiency in the Luftwaffe capabilities at the time. Germany just about RESET the MiG-29s to get them to the NATO "G" Standard, Hinds, Transport to even improve the depot level maintenance of the older MiGs they got. All DDR aircraft were serialized, painted and marked into the Luftwaffe system. I suspect the HINDs were used, but I'm still snooping around to find something more solid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DybJDlMqCGw

I'm finding "breadcrumbs" so I'll follow the trail a little longer concerning the HINDs, MiG 29 and later MiG 29G as upgraded along with the larger Transport aircraft are a definite yes. The MiG 24/or 25 (Can't remember now.), MiG-21 & 17 and other aircraft though maintained were either sold off or scraped with no record that I have found to indicate they were actually ever used by the Luftwaffe.
http://www.euro-t-guide.com/See_Coun..._Gatow_3-1.htm

Regards,
Pat