Battle magic/reverse communions

[Flop]

Alright, so I have more questions, this time regarding magic and communions. I've been reading Baalz' guide, and I'm wondering about the section on reverse communions:

2 or 3 masters then as many cheap slaves as you can muster. Your masters will cast Power of the Spheres then whatever other booster is appropriate (Phoenix Power, etc). For air spells you can use the third master to cast Storm so that air power is an option. Now, all your slaves have been boosted 2 levels, so they can cast fun things like falling fire, thunderstrike, etc. Even lowly S1 mages are now capable of Soul Slaying.

It sounds good, but I'm not sure I understand some of the mechanics. As I understand, a communion slave casting spells, will not benefit from the communion (no extra levels, for the purposes of casting and fatigue), so in order to boost them two levels, so using the example given above, how does an S1 mage gain two levels? The only possibilities I can see, is if one of the masters casts Light of the Northern Star (or is carrying the banner), or if multiple castings of Power of the Spheres stack, in which case I've been playing the game wrong.

Could someone clear this up?

Also, I've been trying a few reverse communions, but my slaves often go off script and start using defensive buffs on themselves, in the second round, before the masters have a chance to do it for them. I'm not sure if this has to do with the range of the scripted spells (it certainly might), or if there are any tricks I need to learn, regarding the scripting of mages. In any case, I'd like it if someone could tell me the rough distance between two starting armies, and what sort of spells would be good to use for the first few rounds, before they close.

Finally, again regarding range, I usually put my mages at the very back of my army, on the left edge of the setup screen. It occurs to me that I might as well put them just behind the rear-most troops, which would usually put them somewhere around the middle of the setup screen. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks.

[SsSam]

Originally Posted by Flop

Alright, so I have more questions, this time regarding magic and communions. I've been reading Baalz' guide, and I'm wondering about the section on reverse communions:

...yeah. Not the easiest subject in the barrel.

Originally Posted by Flop

It sounds good, but I'm not sure I understand some of the mechanics. As I understand, a communion slave casting spells, will not benefit from the communion (no extra levels, for the purposes of casting and fatigue), so in order to boost them two levels, so using the example given above, how does an S1 mage gain two levels? The only possibilities I can see, is if one of the masters casts Light of the Northern Star (or is carrying the banner), or if multiple castings of Power of the Spheres stack, in which case I've been playing the game wrong.

One Light of the Northern star. One Power of the Spheres. Light of the Northern Star doesn't need the communion. Using a reverse communion to get a bunch of S1's to S3 means you save the gems.

Originally Posted by Flop

Also, I've been trying a few reverse communions, but my slaves often go off script

yes. Yes, they do.

I've had such unusual experiences trying to set up reverse communions that unless I'm playing solo, I won't even try it. I've had them work perfectly in test battles and then fail spectacularly when facing a live foe. I don't want that.


On the other hand....the idea of a reverse communion...using the magic system in such a way that the designer never intended ...that's one of the appeals of the richness of the game. I just wish it was more reliable.

[Flop]

Thanks for the answers. I'm still playing around with the communion system, but I think you might be right that reverse communions are best reserved for single player games, or very desperate situations.

Originally Posted by SsSam

One Light of the Northern star. One Power of the Spheres. Light of the Northern Star doesn't need the communion. Using a reverse communion to get a bunch of S1's to S3 means you save the gems.

Just to be absolutely clear: neither of those spells stack, if they're cast more than once, right? I couldn't cast Power of the Spheres twice, for a double increase?

[Kobal2]

No, 2 Powers don't stack, but PotS and LotNS do. AFAIK it's one of the few (the only ?) cases where two spells that have the same effect stack, whereas Fire Fend and Resist Elements don't for example.

[Flop]

Cool, thanks.

[Olm]

Originally Posted by Kobal2

No, 2 Powers don't stack, but PotS and LotNS do. AFAIK it's one of the few (the only ?) cases where two spells that have the same effect stack, whereas Fire Fend and Resist Elements don't for example.

Are you sure Fire Fend and Elemental Fortitude don't stack?
As Elemental Fortitude is about all Elements, and Fire Fend only about one.
Same as with PotS and other magic buffs. PotS stacks also with Earthpower, Phoenix Power, Storm Power etc.

[Bwaha]

Don't do it.

It's fubared.

Really.

Forget your scripted orders...

Fubar.

Don't do it.

[Kobal2]

Originally Posted by Olm

Are you sure Fire Fend and Elemental Fortitude don't stack?
As Elemental Fortitude is about all Elements, and Fire Fend only about one.

Yup. Was reasonably certain before, but now you went and made me test it and yup. Fire Fend+Gaia's Blessing = 50% fire res.

ETA: each of them does stack with innate and equipment-granted resistances though.

[Squirrelloid]

I routinely use reverse communions in MP games. My communions *never* go off script, with the sole exception of battles where the opponent isn't strong enough to trigger gem use (then the boosts don't get cast and so they can't follow their script).

The key thing to keep in mind here is that the second round of casting is wasted - assuming your masters have to cast communion master manually. The slaves haven't gotten their buffs yet, and so are still operating at native levels.

So i often script:
Comm Slave, hold, x3, Spells

The alternative is to give each master a master matrix, that way they can cast the buff spell on the first round of casting (after all teh slaves have cast comm slave), and the slaves can be productive immediately.

[Flop]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

I routinely use reverse communions in MP games. My communions *never* go off script, with the sole exception of battles where the opponent isn't strong enough to trigger gem use (then the boosts don't get cast and so they can't follow their script).

The key thing to keep in mind here is that the second round of casting is wasted - assuming your masters have to cast communion master manually. The slaves haven't gotten their buffs yet, and so are still operating at native levels.

So i often script:
Comm Slave, hold, x3, Spells

The alternative is to give each master a master matrix, that way they can cast the buff spell on the first round of casting (after all teh slaves have cast comm slave), and the slaves can be productive immediately.

Thanks, man, that's good advice. You're right that the second round is where the slaves start screwing around with personal buffs, but I hadn't though of just scripting hold. I will be experimenting a bit more with this.