Belgium OOB error report

[_Tim_]

OOB27 Belgium, Unit 209 A109BA UH/L-MG

ROF is 0, looking at other attack helos this should be 9.

cheers,

Tim

[Pibwl]

#14 M4 (105) - better pic is 13003 (used as Sherman 105 in many oobs)

#032 M106A1 - better pic is 9056

#054, 059 M75 - proper pic is 9036 (current is M59 APC)

#67 20mm AA-Gun - pic is four-wheeled 40 mm Bofors (I don't know what should be instead)

#115-117 Sniper - it's rather doubtful, that the picture should be SVD (maybe generic western 12112 instead?)

#125 S. Star T-33A - picture should be 41265 (it is F-84 now). (Isn't better name just T-33A?)

[Pibwl]

11 IC Firefly - I think, that better name is Firefly IC ("IC Firefly" makes no sense, since it should be Sherman IC Firefly). Correct pic is 12801 - current is Israeli M50 or M51

12 VC Firefly - I think, that better name is Firefly VC

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

11 IC Firefly - I think, that better name is Firefly IC ("IC Firefly" makes no sense, since it should be Sherman IC Firefly). Correct pic is 12801 - current is Israeli M50 or M51

12 VC Firefly - I think, that better name is Firefly VC

Technically, it should be "Sherman IC" and "Sherman VC"- the firefly designator was as I recall an overall "project" designation for 17-pdr armed tanks. The name was not really much used in the field, rather the "C" designation (for a 17pdr armed version). Much the same as "Achilles" was never really used by the actual troops for the M10, 17pdr.

However, both designations are rather popular with both modellers and wargamers. A sort of post war "invented folklore" thing amongst armour enthusiasts . Even Wiki agrees - para 7 of the design section : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_Firefly

Ditto the ones built (and issued) to the US Army:
http://freespace.virgin.net/shermani...fly/usnew.html

US conversions only seem to have been called, Sherman M4 and M4A3 17 Pounder. Firefly is not mentioned once in the documents. This is consistent with official British and Commonwealth practice, where the name also does not appear. As discussed in Sherman Firefly the name is only used in two captions at the IWM and in unit war diaries and soldiers recollections.

And from the same article - conversions not issued, but some Sherman IC variants were actually issued (but apparently given back before combat) to the US 555th tank battalion in Italy. See the paragraph beginning

As stated in my book Phil Dyer provided me with details of Dick Harley's discovery of a photo of US Fireflies, published in "AFV News" Vol 24, No 1 and a copy of the photo. This shows what appear to be IC Hybrids and IC's in a tank park..."

Now - I wonder how many WinSPWW2 US Army players will now be justifying buying themselves some "captured" UK Sherman ICs in May 1945 ("Well what if they did get some into action .... )


Cheers
Andy

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Technically, it should be "Sherman IC" and "Sherman VC"- the firefly designator was as I recall an overall "project" designation for 17-pdr armed tanks.

So, maybe they should be named just Sherman IC and VC - unless someone can prove, that "Firefly" was their Belgian name?...

Originally Posted by Mobhack

The name was not really much used in the field, rather the "C" designation (for a 17pdr armed version). Much the same as "Achilles" was never really used by the actual troops for the M10, 17pdr.

...and Jagdpanzer 38 wasn't named Hetzer?

Regards
Michal

[Mobhack]

One problem with using "national" names for exactly the same things is that it is an extreme PITA when it comes to OOB maintenance. So often it'll be whatever the majority or "home producer" unit name it is for the thing that we use. Especially for smaller/minor OOBs.

Consider for example this bit of SQL which is attempting to dump all the varicose "centurions" in the extracted OOB database:

Select U.NationID,N.NationName,U.name,U.slot,u.SteelHullf ront,u.steelhullside,u.steelhullrear,u.steelturret front,u.steelturretside,u.steelturretrear,u.steelt op
from Units U, NationNames N
where ( ( LOWER(U.name) like "%centurion%")
OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%semel%")
OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%olifant%")
OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%sh'ot%")
OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%pz%%55%")
OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%pz%%57%")
OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%strv%%81%")
OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%strv%%101%")
OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%strv%%102%")
OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%strv%%104%")
OR (LOWER(U.name) like "%tariq%"))
AND U.nationID=n.nationID
order by u.steelhullfront

- and there is quite probably some odd variation in the name for the darned thing that I have missed out ...

Andy