Customer relations - part 2

[Mike_T]

Annette, why have you closed the previous thread on this subject without dealing with the customer relations issues raised?

You have pretended that the thread was just about about bugs and fixes, and have now attempted to stifle discussion on the subject of how Shrapnel has treated customers and potential customers in relation to this game. You are responsible for launching a product that doesn't work properly, and now you expect your customers to be responsible for telling you what the problems are! Do you not accept any responsibility yourself? It's your product, not the customers.

No business can be successful in the long term if it treats its customers like this. Correct me if I've missed it, but I don't think you've even apologised.

[ScottWAR]

I was about to make another post myself.........


Here is Annettes final post before locking the thread.-----
"One constructive thing has come from this thread. We've learned that we (Shrapnel Games and Malfador Machinations) have missed bug reports and complaints. To correct that problem, Malfador has asked that we create one place for reporting bugs and one place for making feature requests. We've opened two threads here for that purpose and ask that you think of them as our ears. If you've reported something in a post elsewhere on these forums or in an email, it would be extremely helpful if you would repost in the new thread. We're trying to get your issues in one place so that they may be addressed. We need to keep those threads concise and free of clutter, so we won't be using them for discussion. If you'd like a separate thread for "bug discussion" let me know via pm, and I'll open a sub-thread for that. Our goal is to address bug reports and wishlists as efficiently as possible. I don't see much else constructive coming from this discussion, so I'm going to lock it down."

She says that Shrapnel and Malfador have been missing the complaints and bug reports. Now exactly HOW do you miss all of the forum posts about the problems with this game? There is only one way,...by ignoring the customers on the forums and their posts. NOT A GOOD ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!

How are you mising the bug reports after specifically telling us to send them in instead of posting about them on the forums (which it is becoming obvious at this point is less about fixing bugs than hiding the state the game is in.)? Maybe you ought to rethink the method you use for bug reports,...since the method you use obviously doesnt work. Maybe its time to do it like EVERY other developer does and READ YOUR FORUMS. THATS where people post the bugs they find at.

Its time for Malfador to get off their butts and get on these forums and read them to see what problems there are. Its time for developers to start doing what they are paid for and make their own bug lists, and fix them,...instead of asking to customers to pay for a game and then beta test it. I PAID for the game I should not have to become a part of the testing team in order to play what I have paid for.

Sharapnel needs to discontinue sale of this game since it is not working properly and at this point in time is nothing more than a waste of money and is only going to cause potential and past customers of Shrapnel to start NOT trusting them. I know I wont be buying any more Shrapnel products without being sure they are actually somewhat finished enough to be playable.

[Tecnócrata]

It's sad to see what road Malfador has taken. But after the Space Empires 5 fiasco (still plenty of bugs, terrible AI, and no more patches), this is no surprise. Malfador's time has ended.

[spillblood]

Man, I can only ask: Are they seriously believing they MISSED complaints and bug reports? They sure did get them, especially Malfador. I think it's a pretty bad move to close of Shrapnel to close down a discussion on this forum. Do something, dammit!

[Uncle_Joe]

It's sad to see what road Malfador has taken. But after the Space Empires 5 fiasco (still plenty of bugs, terrible AI, and no more patches), this is no surprise. Malfador's time has ended.

I dont know all of the specifics on SE5, but my understanding was that the lack of continued support for it was not Aaron/Malfador's fault. I believe it was the company he sold SE5's rights to (Strategy First IIRC). They stopped him from continuing to support the game and I believe (although this could have been speculation) that he is/was under contract not to produce another space-themed 4x game for some period of time as well.

I didnt particularly care for SE5 either (it became far too clunky and unbalanced) but I thought that it had the potential to be better than SE4 and it just never really got there.

I feel the same way about World Supremacy. I think it has a lot of the right elements to make a fast, easy, and fun game. It just needs to have the bugs ironed out and some serious help for the AI. I know AI coding is extremely difficult so I had, at one point, posted a series of changes that could have been made to the game rules to help keep the AI on a more equal footing (which would have been a LOT easier IMO than actually trying to code the AI to better make use of those elements).

At this point, I haven't touched WS since maybe the first week of January? It's just not worth the bother as is. But I have bought plenty of games over the years that I have played a few times and never really gotten into (SE5 is actually in that category...I REALLY wanted to like it, but it just never drew me in). So while I'm not happy about the state the game was released in (and the failure to correct the core issues in a timely manner), I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

What I *will* do however is wait before purchasing other products from 'indi' devs and publishers until there is more feedback that the game is finished and polished enough to be worth the money. I bought WS essentially based on my prior good experiences with SE3/SE4 from Malfador and the SP series from Shrapnel. After my experience with WS, both are back in the 'wait and see' category, which is a shame. As a small business, it's very hard to build up a good reputation, but it sure is easy to lose. :/

[S.R. Krol]

Originally Posted by spillblood

Man, I can only ask: Are they seriously believing they MISSED complaints and bug reports? They sure did get them, especially Malfador. I think it's a pretty bad move to close of Shrapnel to close down a discussion on this forum. Do something, dammit!

From my understanding the thread has been closed because nothing new was being added to the dialogue, and in fact it was just going in circles. Malfador was made aware of the original complaints stated in the thread, Aaron asked us to create threads for bug reports and feature requests. That was done, and at that point he would monitor them to see if a new patch was warranted. Until something happens with that though there's not a lot else that can be done.

Of course you can always try contacting him directly to check on the status through his website.

Originally Posted by Mike_T

You have pretended that the thread was just about about bugs and fixes, and have now attempted to stifle discussion on the subject of how Shrapnel has treated customers and potential customers in relation to this game. You are responsible for launching a product that doesn't work properly, and now you expect your customers to be responsible for telling you what the problems are! Do you not accept any responsibility yourself? It's your product, not the customers.

Yes, like any software vendor was expect our customers to tell us what their specific issues with the software are because their problem isn't always everyone else's problem.

[spillblood]

Hey, a new patch is DEFINITELY needed.

[ScottWAR]

Originally Posted by S.R. Krol

Yes, like any software vendor was expect our customers to tell us what their specific issues with the software are because their problem isn't always everyone else's problem.

The thing is we have done that,...since the beginning,...thats not the issue,...the issue the lack of support, the lack of communication,...the lack of patches that actually fix something. And all those "lacks" come from the developers end,....not ours.

And we still havent received one single "We apologize" for the complete lack of support and for being left completely in the dark. You say the other post was closed becasue it was no longer constructive,......try apologizing for unloading this game on us before it was reasy,.......THEN you might see more cooperation and less frustrartion from those that got burned by this game.


And yes,.....as spillblood says,...a patch is BADLY needed, and you've probably got all the help form the community that you are going to get until we see a patch as proof that something is actually being done with this game.

You see we have answered the questions, we have made lists of what is wrong with the game,....we have done all that before and didnt see any results from it........ excuse us if we seem skeptical now. Get a patch out and we may start actually believing this game isnt dead.

[ScottWAR]

I went ahead and added the problems I have seen and features I would like to see to the repspective posts. Hopefully we some results soon.

[spillblood]

I've sent another E-Mail to Malfador asking about progress on the game and whether they checked the two new bug/ wishlist-threads (and complaining a bit about lack of information since last December). Let's see if they answer.