Stealthy Units and the "Defend" Command

[earwicker7]

Just reading through the manual again in preparation for my first multiplayer game; I need clarification on something I THINK I know the answer to, but I don't want to find out I'm wrong by some army stomping all over me lol.

Here's the quote: "Stealthy units given the Defend order will fight enemies attacking the province, rather than hiding."

I'm assuming this means that stealthy units set on Defend will be hidden UNTIL the enemy enters the province, and not that a Defend order is basically them de-stealthing for all to see. Which one is correct?

[thejeff]

Defend is de-stealthing them for all to see. As are any of the other orders that take you out of hiding.

That said, it only applies in your own territory and I think anyone can see your troops in your own territory anyway. I'm not sure about that.
Except for glamour units, who no one can see on the map whether they're hiding or not.

[earwicker7]

So there's no way to "set a trap" where your stealthy units are hiding in what would appear, to an enemy in the neighboring territory, to be empty territory (no non-stealthy units there), but will jump out from behind the trees and attack them if an enemy enters the territory? I was hoping that would be what the Defend command would do with stealthy units.

[Edi]

That's what the glamour ability does. Glamour units (even without stealth) cannot be detected by any means, so if you have a bunch of glamour units defending, they will precisely jump your enemy from behind the trees and stick him full of holes.

This makes the EA nations of Vaheim, Helheim and Tir na'Nog so very painful, since they have tons of glamour units, some of which are tough enough on their own. Someone who plays well with their raiding capabilities will cause you to rip out your hair...

[Kobal2]

Wait, thejeff, are you saying that units with the Hide order show up if they're in your own lands ? Sounds weird to me.

But if they don't, then they should be able to set a trap too : units coming out of stealth happens in the magic phase, not the movement phase. Hide your guys, let him take the province, give the attack order next turn when he's on top of your guys. If I'm not mistaken, you can even teleport mages/thugs on top and they'll join the fun in the same battle.

The only problem is, you'd lose a turn of income and the PD from that prov.

[thejeff]

Originally Posted by Kobal2

Wait, thejeff, are you saying that units with the Hide order show up if they're in your own lands ? Sounds weird to me.

No, I was wrong about that. You can't see hidden troops even when they hiding in their own lands. Somehow I'd never noticed that.

Originally Posted by Kobal2

But if they don't, then they should be able to set a trap too : units coming out of stealth happens in the magic phase, not the movement phase. Hide your guys, let him take the province, give the attack order next turn when he's on top of your guys. If I'm not mistaken, you can even teleport mages/thugs on top and they'll join the fun in the same battle.

The only problem is, you'd lose a turn of income and the PD from that prov.

This doesn't work though. I just tested it. Hidden troops will only attack in the magic phase if you teleport someone in. If there is a magic phase battle, they'll join in, otherwise they'll wait til after the movement phase.

FinalGenesis's idea of predicting the attack and uncloaking to meet it should work.

[Finalgenesis]

Glamour aside, stealth troops can still ambush through switch from "hide" or "sneak" to "defend" (or patrol ...etc) the turn you expect an attack to come, your stealth units will not show itself until next turn, meaning if you predicted correctly enemy will have attacked your newly destealthed defenders in the next turn before they can change orders. If you predicted wrong and enemy did not move in that turn, your stealthed army is now destealthed and can be seen.