non-amphi undead going underwater

[nordlys]

A lot of undead lack the "poor amphibian" trait, i.e. banes, mummies, behemoths etc. How do I bring them to wreak havoc underseas? Common water-breathing items like barrel of air and sea king's goblet? Makes no sense.

And while we're on that: water-breathing capacity is defined by item UW divided by unit sz? The descriptions like "50 men or 25 giants" and "75 soldiers or 50 horsemen" are pretty vague for a hydra or something So I assume a goblet can only sustain 20 niefel giants with their size 5, not 25? How about a commander, is he included in total number, sustained out of count or needs a personal uw item for himself?

Finally, how much of a penalty a unit granted waterbreathing actually suffers underwater? As poor amphi (not that I know exact numbers for it) or even worse? I contemplate sending a couple of goblet and barrel-enabled niefel giant task forces to clear out the neighbouring seas of atlanteans and aboleths, but I wonder if they'll end up raped by a couple of tritons.

[thejeff]

I'm not sure, thematically, why some undead have "poor amphibian" and some don't. Though arguments can be made for some. The behemoth description, for example, says it is controlled by a mage riding it. Maybe he needs to breathe. (That breaks down as well if you look at it too closely.) Regardless, the answer is, as you suspect, standard water-breathing items. (Which also make on sense thematically: How do 50 troops breathe out of a single barrel of air and manage to do anything else - like fight a battle?)

You're right about capacity: 50 men is 100 size units. IIRC, the commander counts towards the limit.

Items grant "poor amphibian". I don't recall the exact numbers, -2 or 3 to att/def/AP? Neifel giants will still slaughter tritons, but may have trouble against more elite forces, especially cold resistant ones. But Neifels usually win by surviving until everyone else freezes anyway, so their stats don't matter much.

[Humakty]

A very dry mummy, deciding to have a prolonged bath in salted water, would result in the most powerfull mud puddle ever seen in the whole world !

[Sombre]

Yet if you give him some tablets to help him breathe underwater, he'll be bone dry!

It's a game, it isn't supposed to make /that/ much sense. Only enough sense to be intuitive.

Units with no amphib sent underwater with a water breathing item become poor amphibs.

[nordlys]

I see. I'd make it so the units which are "lifeless" aren't affected by uw items, since whatever their reason for being unable to enter water is, having a supply of air to breathe won't remedy that. Behemoths, counting their mages, probably aren't technically "lifeless" and would still need their air (but certainly not for size 6), but mummies would be out.

But if it works that simple, well, the better for me

[Fantomen]

Note that some undead can never etner the water under any circumstances, vampires I know for sure. Perhaps mummies too?

20 giants assumes size 3, so niefels would be 10 i suppose (minus the commander so 9)

[nordlys]

Originally Posted by Fantomen

Note that some undead can never etner the water under any circumstances, vampires I know for sure. Perhaps mummies too?

That would make sense [S]bio[/S]necrology-wise. For hidden in sand, too. And I just wanted to give a couple of rebirth-ed niefel jarls a second chance without upsetting good jotunfolk with the smell... Should have twiceborned them in advance.

Now why the banes can't enter water, beats me.

20 giants assumes size 3, so niefels would be 10 i suppose (minus the commander so 9)

Niefels are sz 5 according to Dom3DB. Common jotuns are 4, 3 is a human cavalry size.