How turn Dominions from a niche game to an MMO

[Ink]

1. Provide Dominions via digital distribution for FREE.
2. Hire (or pay retrospectively since he is the ENTIRE FREAKING. REASON YOU HAVE A PLAYER BASE, Shrapnel) llamabeast to program a game server.
3. Charge players 50 cents to join a game and 5 cents per turn played.
4. ???
5. Profit

how long have you played dominions? 1, 2, 3, 4 years? How many games are you in?

Imagine that there is NO upfront cost. You get the game and can single player for free. Evidence for or against the idea is anecdotal at best; but we all know that many players are put off due to 1) the cost of the game and 2) lack of digital distribution. We all know that Shrapnel hikes up the cost higher than a whore's skirt because they think it is a 'niche' game that 'niche' players will pay anything for, and they are sort of right. But the game is freaking fun, and many other people would come to enjoy and get addicted to it given the opportunity.

Problem is the current marketing scheme does little to funnel new players into the multi player aspects of the game (where it truly shines and was designed for). Long time and heavy players like myself would have painlessly paid 3 or 4 (at minimum) times the current cost of the game in a pay-to-play setup. Current average players would probably cover their cost of the game. And tons of players who would currently never ever play due to cost and Shrapnel's "this is a niche game" defeatism would be playing.

Obviously, a lot of stuff would have had to happen in Dominions design and release for a payment scheme like what I suggest, so it may have just never been very likely given when Dom was released. Really, the moral of the story is: When was the last time you donated to the llamaserver?

[Ballbarian]

Make it pay-to-play and I guarantee that I for one would walk away and never look back.

[Squirrelloid]

Why not take a lesson from Blizzard? And I don't mean WOW.

Run servers for free. Run ads on the server. Make money off selling advertising.

Of course, for that to work you need people to play your game. I'll note SC and D2 are still sold in gaming stores, but now its something like $20 for both SC and its expansion. Of course, you want as big a player base as possible, so you get more people visiting the server, and thus viewing the ads, and thus the ad space is more valuable.

Create additional games and offer them through the same server for MP content so each additional game adds to the value of the server.

The trick is not to get the players to pay-to-play, but to get companies to pay to advertise to those who are playing. Of course, that requires that it not be niche.

I agree entirely with Ballbarian that pay-to-play schemes make me unhappy, and I refuse to touch most MMORPGs for exactly that reason. (Ok, and I hate the tedious gameplay that adds nothing to the experience I can get playing a rogue-like).

[Trumanator]

Really, what on earth is the point of this thread. Its like the endlessly repeated threads about digital distribution. Seriously, nothings going to change.

[Ink]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

I agree entirely with Ballbarian that pay-to-play schemes make me unhappy, and I refuse to touch most MMORPGs for exactly that reason. (Ok, and I hate the tedious gameplay that adds nothing to the experience I can get playing a rogue-like).

50 cents a game a 5 cents a turn? that works out to like 2 or 3 dollars a month. You'd have to play a minimum of two games at a time for 2 or 3 years before you'd end up shelling out the current cost of the game. They could offer a "you pay 60 bucks now and never pay again" option, but I guarantee you that you and Ballbarian would never had agreed to that if you'd been given a pay to play option like this.

The idea is that players who would not drop 60 bucks now would be enticed to try the game out. Further, they would be funneled directly into the MP experience, and be exposed to the awesome player base and see how much fun the game really is. A big part of the problem is that Shrapnel does little to nothing to do that now (despite that the game is clearly designed primarily as an MP game).

Originally Posted by Trumanator

Really, what on earth is the point of this thread. Its like the endlessly repeated threads about digital distribution. Seriously, nothings going to change.

Originally Posted by Ink

Obviously, a lot of stuff would have had to happen in Dominions design and release for a payment scheme like what I suggest, so it may have just never been very likely given when Dom was released. Really, the moral of the story is: When was the last time you donated to the llamaserver?

[thejeff]

You would also need to gut the server out of the game entirely so people couldn't play MP without using the official servers. So no self hosted games with your friends. Not to mention that if Shrapnel goes out of business or the business model doesn't work, no more MP at all.

More importantly, the number of people playing in games organized here, through llamaserver or whatever is a small fraction of those who bought the game. There would have to be a huge increase in games played through this official server to make up for all the lost sales revenue.

[13lackGu4rd]

Originally Posted by Ink

50 cents a game a 5 cents a turn? that works out to like 2 or 3 dollars a month. You'd have to play a minimum of two games at a time for 2 or 3 years before you'd end up shelling out the current cost of the game. They could offer a "you pay 60 bucks now and never pay again" option, but I guarantee you that you and Ballbarian would never had agreed to that if you'd been given a pay to play option like this.

the people who are for P2P systems don't understand the very simple psychology that works against it. when you pay once you can use something indefinitely because its yours, when it's P2P you are constantly thinking(at least subconsciously) on how to get the most bang out of your buck(since you control the buck you spent) so in this case more SP than MP(because its free) and perhaps smaller games with fewer turns than larger games with more turns.

another problem that will occur is that people will abandon their games a lot more often, losing interest+saving your bucks>just losing interest, so all the discussion around the "good player pledge" and all those issues will be severely hampered by a P2P system.

The idea is that players who would not drop 60 bucks now would be enticed to try the game out. Further, they would be funneled directly into the MP experience, and be exposed to the awesome player base and see how much fun the game really is. A big part of the problem is that Shrapnel does little to nothing to do that now (despite that the game is clearly designed primarily as an MP game).

actually if SP will be free than how will it entice people to enter MP(not free)? not to mention that they already have a free Demo to give players a basic(and pretty good I must add) idea on how the game works while still reserving enough to make buying the game an actual necessity.

[Ink]

Originally Posted by 13lackGu4rd

the people who are for P2P systems don't understand the very simple psychology that works against it. when you pay once you can use something indefinitely because its yours, when it's P2P you are constantly thinking(at least subconsciously) on how to get the most bang out of your buck(since you control the buck you spent) so in this case more SP than MP(because its free) and perhaps smaller games with fewer turns than larger games with more turns.

another problem that will occur is that people will abandon their games a lot more often, losing interest+saving your bucks>just losing interest, so all the discussion around the "good player pledge" and all those issues will be severely hampered by a P2P system.

Make games cost a dollar to enter instead. The amount above 50 cents goes towards your first 25 turns. If you get knocked out before that, it gets refunded. Handle payments through a credits set-up (credits are bought from a Shrapnel store-front).

People won't play SP because aside from a few unusual individuals (the kind of people that want to play on unpopulated Ultima servers so that they can be alone) no one actually thinks SP is any fun. Also the psychology bit you mentioned works for this too: MP costs a trivial amount to play, but it biases players to the notion that it is because that's the way the game is supposed to be played, and is were all the fun is. I think a lot of people buy the game thinking SP is the normal and don't try MP for a long time (if they ever try it at all).

Originally Posted by 13lackGu4rd

actually if SP will be free than how will it entice people to enter MP(not free)? not to mention that they already have a free Demo to give players a basic(and pretty good I must add) idea on how the game works while still reserving enough to make buying the game an actual necessity.

If I had played the demo, I would have never bought the game. I bought the game on impulse because I thought it was going to be like Master of Magic. I played SP for about a month and then didn't play again for several months after (because it was so boring). During those several months I got into games sold as online games, and got the online experience. I installed Dom3 again on a whim and, having been broken into online gaming and realizing it was the norm (not the exception) was willing to jump right into Dom's MP play. It wasn't until after that experience that I become a Dom addict. I can guarantee you that the demo, combined with the absurd cost and lack of digital distribution, dissuades potential players. Currently, you cannot experience MP play on the demo. For dominions to find its full potential, it needs a distribution and payment scheme that pushes players immediately into MP, and allows them to try it at some trivial cost, and then only charges them that trivial cost to continue playing.

[Sombre]

If it was 5 cents a turn I really can't imagine people abandoning games to save money or doing anything they don't do now. 5 cents is a sufficiently small amount that I'd equate it to 'nothing' rather than 'bucks'.

Not that I'm for or against this idea, I just don't see people changing their game playing behaviour or playing SP to save money if it were to cost that little to play.

[Gandalf Parker]

There are ways to supplement a server.

Anyone can join PoDs such as CafePress for free. Create a merchandise shop. Sell Tshirts
(anyone remember the Tshirt Contest?)
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=18823
Sell mugs with the keypress chart on it for that late night coffee blitzing.
Sell CDs with mods, or maps, or some of the great wallpaper and background screens
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=30224
Or posters and greeting cards of the same screens.
Sell Baalz Guides, or some of the AARs, in book form

Also a site can open an Amazon account and create links to appropriate items. Music CDs, movies, things to make your gaming experience better. With an amazon affiliate account you can make a few cents on each click-thru

Besides charging to play you can also charge for email addresses on the server. Especially if it has a good dominions name (I wish I could get one on www.Dominions3.com but its just a flytrap). Or webpage space on the server for the many projects we have in the community here. Or DNS service. Or charge for hosting instead of for playing. Charges could be amazingly reasonable if the goal isnt to make money but just to cover the cost of the server.

Some services that could be added would be for SMS notifications of turns, fancy graphs and charts for ongoing games, voice-share chat like XBox games have, competition ladders, forums not moderated by the corporation, whiteboards for game strategy, IRC, advertising for members willing to fill requests for pay.