Top Ten Reasons for Balancing ModPack

[LT411]

1. Ships can move into range of stationary units, fire their weapons, and retreat without the defender ever getting a chance to fire back. To balance this, stationary units have mounts which extend their range.


2. Six Ion Engines I move a 150kT Escort 6 squares per turn. The same six engines move a 600kT BattleCruiser 6 squares per turn. To balance this, small ships are faster than large ships with the same engines.


3. Research time for weapons is so low compared to other areas that it often makes sense to research 3 or 4 levels before equipping them - and requires constant upgrading of designs. To balance this, research times are smoothed out to encourage a round-robin approach that provides more time to use each technology level.


4. A new colony constructs at 2000 resources per turn. If you build a Space Yard Facility I it still constructs at 2000 resources per turn. To balance this, new colonies start at 1000 resources per turn.


5. Of the three resources, minerals are used for almost exclusively relegating organics and radioactives to insignificance. To balance this, construction costs include all three.


6. The fixed cost of engines is insignificant compared to their value in combat, yet the AI does not put the maximum number of engines on it�s designs. This gives players who max out their engines an unfair advantage. To balance this, the size and cost of engines should be equivelant to their value, but the game doesn�t support this. Therefore, the maximum number of engines is limited to the value the AI uses.


7. The defensive bonus for ship size is not proportional to the size of the ship. To balance this, they should be applied consistently. In addition, adjustments for stationary targets are included because it makes a big difference when trying to hit a target if it is moving or not.


8. The cost of most components stays the same with new technology levels. To balance this, the cost should increase proportionaly with the value.


9. The lack of maintenance on units coupled with low construction costs and high construction rates make it possible to quickly and easily create impregneble defenses on colonies. To balance this, the construction costs of units is increased.


10. It makes the game play and feel more like Master of Orion and less like Ascendancy.

[Phoenix-D]

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Originally posted by LT411:
[b]1. Ships can move into range of stationary units, fire their weapons, and retreat without the defender ever getting a chance to fire back. To balance this, stationary units have mounts which extend their range.

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Bases or WPs- I forget which- already do.

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2. Six Ion Engines I move a 150kT Escort 6 squares per turn. The same six engines move a 600kT BattleCruiser 6 squares per turn. To balance this, small ships are faster than large ships with the same engines.

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See P&N Version 2

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3. Research time for weapons is so low compared to other areas that it often makes sense to research 3 or 4 levels before equipping them - and requires constant upgrading of designs. To balance this, research times are smoothed out to encourage a round-robin approach that provides more time to use each technology level.

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Hmm.

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4. A new colony constructs at 2000 resources per turn. If you build a Space Yard Facility I it still constructs at 2000 resources per turn. To balance this, new colonies start at 1000 resources per turn.

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[/quote]5. Of the three resources, minerals are used for almost exclusively relegating organics and radioactives to insignificance. To balance this, construction costs include all three.[/quote] Watch it with this- the game gives homeworlds many, many more mineral miners than the other two, and that can't be changed. Overbalance and you slow the early game WAY down, lending even more power to research and intel.


[/quote]6. The fixed cost of engines is insignificant compared to their value in combat, yet the AI does not put the maximum number of engines on it�s designs. This gives players who max out their engines an unfair advantage. To balance this, the size and cost of engines should be equivelant to their value, but the game doesn�t support this. Therefore, the maximum number of engines is limited to the value the AI uses.[/quote]Uhh.. wouldn't it be better just to mod the AIs?

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7. The defensive bonus for ship size is not proportional to the size of the ship. To balance this, they should be applied consistently. In addition, adjustments for stationary targets are included because it makes a big difference when trying to hit a target if it is moving or not.

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Agreed. No way to make a moving/no moving ship disadvantage though.

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8. The cost of most components stays the same with new technology levels. To balance this, the cost should increase proportionaly with the value.

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Dunno what game you're playing, but SE4 has prices go up. Not to the extent that you'd want to use just the old stuff, but enough so you feel it.

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9. The lack of maintenance on units coupled with low construction costs and high construction rates make it possible to quickly and easily create impregneble defenses on colonies. To balance this, the construction costs of units is increased.

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You can only put a certain number of mines in a sector; satilities cannot move and are thus easily bypassed or destroyed- not the mention that they cost the same as a ship of the same size-, fighters do have ooomph but are torn up by PDCs, and troops are, well, troops.

Notice that you didn't add things like:

-Why does it cost so much to get phased shields when PPBs are so easy to get?

Phoenix-D

[Mad_Lear]

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Originally posted by Phoenix-D:

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-Why does it cost so much to get phased shields when PPBs are so easy to get?
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Yeah, thats a quirk of the early game I've never really understood either. Find it goes so far as to significantly lessen the value of racial techs during the first half of the game (PPBs are generally WAY cheaper to research, just as damaging, and go right through shields). I kind of like how SuicideJunkie handles it(in P&N), with the even/odd phased/regular shield research tree. Myself, I would make phase shielding an applied tech which becomes available at Physics lvl 2 (same level that PPBs show up). Research the applied tech, get access to phased shielding (at the level of your actual shield tech, same way small weapons gives you miniturized Versions of weapons at the tech level at which you know them). That way, two empires with even research output, the guy who researchs PPBs (a quickly researched weapon tech) would be able to pound the heck out of the guy who researches phase shielding (a slower researched applied tech) for a while, but not for the entire early-middle game. Of course, I've never been able to figure out the whole modding thing in the first place, so maybe I should just keep my big mouth shut and leave it up to the experts.
Anyway, I basically agree with Phoenix-D that its some of the small imbalances like that really take some of the diversity out of the game (and really lets a player dominate the AIs who don't happen to research the "linchpin" techs at the right time). The great SEIV mods out there are the ones that do the big and the little things well, and by the sound of it this balancing mod is going to be a good one. Totally looking forward to it!

P.S. While I'm on the topic of mods, I'm just getting into the P v2.2b mod, and it totally rocks. Really changes the "feel" of the game, not just the statistics. A very fun and refreshing change from the standard SEIV universe. Suicide, those living ships are hella cool. Just so you know

Edit: Typos and jibberish

[This message has been edited by Mad_Lear (edited 13 August 2001).]

[Gimboid]

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Originally posted by Phoenix-D:

-Why does it cost so much to get phased shields when PPBs are so easy to get?

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I dont know about you guys, but i always go up the armor tree early game to counter that threat. Not only do 40kt or armor 3's beat shields 3 in defense (by a measly 10k, but every little bit helps), but its alot cheaper to build then the shields component. I just dont want to waste my research points climbing the shield tree when instead i could have potent weapons and better facilities to help my economy.

The armor tree is quick to research for the first 3 especially, and its a reasonable defense until you come across someone will nullspace cannons or worse - someone with crystal tech AND PPB <shudder>

[Phoenix-D]

The problem is that 40kt takes 4 times longer to repair than a shield generator. Not only that, but destroyed armor doesn't regenerate after a battle.. shields do.

Phoenix-D

[Gimboid]

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Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
The problem is that 40kt takes 4 times longer to repair than a shield generator. Not only that, but destroyed armor doesn't regenerate after a battle.. shields do.

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I didnt think of the time it take to repair the armor, good point. I dont tend to take that into consideration as i either dont have any repair ships present in a fleet or have enough to repair like 40 components in a turn.

And RE shield regeneration :- also a good point, but against people with PPB what use is that when your shields are one of the components hit as their weapons slice through your defences.

Against CSM's or non shield piercing weapons you would be right, and have a more effective defence until your shield component was destroyed. It all depends on how you like to design ships and what sort of weapons your opponent uses i suppose.

[Suicide Junkie]

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A very fun and refreshing change from the standard SEIV universe. Suicide, those living ships are hella cool. Just so you know

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Oh, yeah. I've taken that trait a lot too, and decided to bump the racial point cost up because of it.
With my "every-racial-tech" merchant race, I've had to go with 50% repair rate, and include two H.O. on each ship. That ends up costing me the normal C&C space (30KT) on each ship (LCs), and all I really get for my racial points is one component healed per turn, plus cool component pictures .

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I didnt think of the time it take to repair the armor, good point. I dont tend to take that into consideration as i either dont have any repair ships present in a fleet or have enough to repair like 40 components in a turn.

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HeHe. If you were playing P&N, then you'd be concerned about the repair time of your advanced armor
Plasma Projection Armor, with 14 HP/KT sounds great, but when you consider that even a repair bay III only fixes 112 hitpoints per month, then you start to wonder
Note: with Ablative Armor (8 HP/KT, 3KT size) the repair bay fixes 192 HP/turn, and with standard armor (5HP/KT, 10KT), it fixes 400 HP/turn.

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I dont know about you guys, but i always go up the armor tree early game to counter that threat.

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The rapid hitpoint increase of armor tech really helps the early game. I always research it first, then go back and research shield tech.
Especially with the P&N tech, I like to get the hitpoints of plasma armor, add an emissive armor to take care of weak hits, and a shield regenerator to ensure that the emissive takes care of the first hit each round.
(EG. Antiproton beam: 50. Shield regen: 20 pts. Emissive armor: 30 pts. first hit drops shields, does no damage. Subsequent shots are dodged, or go into the plasma armor).

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PPBs are generally WAY cheaper to research, just as damaging, and go right through shields). I kind of like how SuicideJunkie handles it(in P&N), with the even/odd phased/regular shield research tree.

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As of P&N 2.2 or so, Phased weapons are more expensive to research.
"Phased weapons" gets you nothing by itself; you have to research other tech, such as missiles, torpedoes, or beams. The phased weapon tech gives you phased Versions of the other weapons.

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5. Of the three resources, minerals are used for almost exclusively relegating organics and radioactives to insignificance. To balance this, construction costs include all three.

Watch it with this- the game gives homeworlds many, many more mineral miners than the other two, and that can't be changed. Overbalance and you slow the early game WAY down, lending even more power to research and intel.

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In P&N, the high tech engines all require lots of radioactives. Weapon rad costs are up a bit too, and the heavy bombardment nukes cost tons.
Combined with the huge engine requirements of larger (mid-game) ships, most races must balance minerals and radioactives.
Organics are still only heavily used by organic tech races and, to a lesser extent, living ship races.

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