Malaysia error report

[_Tim_]

obat74 Malaysia
unit120 UK 25 Pdr Troop

HE ammo of 120 rounds inconsistent with other nations, suggest revise to 90 rounds.

weapon236 2 pounder gun
According to Encyclopedia of Weapons (ed Chris Bishop) the 2 pounder penetrates 53mm at 455m and has max effective range 548m.
Suggest AP Pen of 5 instead of 7 and Weapon range of 11.

This will affect many other nations with the 2 pounder - I don't intend to fill the Forum with all of these as you might disagree.

Regarding the weapon range - I find a lot of the tank guns etc seem to have a very long range (especially in the 1950s) so for a 2 pounder to fire to 2.25 kms might be a feature of the gameplay(??).

I'm a relative newcomer to SP3 and the forum (this is my first post) so I must add my appreciation for the hard work of the team.

cheers

Tim

[Marcello]

If I have understood game mechanics correctly with guns using kinetic energy rounds (AP,APCR,APDS etc.) maximum range does affect the degradation of penetration at the various ranges. So it might be necessary to give guns more than the actual maximum practical range (different from the ballistic range) to keep their performances consistent with the real ones.

[DRG]

One of the truly "interesting" things about OOB work is the sheer number of sources that conflict. It's bad enough for more modern weapons where one might assume actual capabilities are classified but it can be more than just a bit frustrating when dealing with 70 year old weapons with capabilities that should be well known.

For example. This website http://www.tarrif.net/

when you click on the British section/ Artillery has this to say about the 2 pounders capabilities

Penetration Data for the 40mm Q.F. 2 Pounder Mk.IXA L / 50

AP Shot Mk.I ( Armor Piercing )
100 m--66 / 49 mm
500 m--50 / 38 mm
1000 m--35 / 28 mm
1500 m--25 / 21 mm
2000 m--18 / 16 mm

so 66 would translate to a 7 pen and as there is data out to 2000 metres one might assume the range was also greater than 600 yards. Yes ?

The AP model we use in the game gives that gun a 7 pen out to 250 yards when it drops to 6. at 500 it drops to 5, 600 drops to 4, at 1000 it drops to 3 and at 1450 it drops to 2 and at 1950 it drops to 1 and I have no problem with any of that.

So if we look at what the game does with this gun at the range stated in the Chris Bishop book "the 2 pounder penetrates 53mm at 455m " this fit's in quite nicely with the 5cm of penetration that game gives that gun at 500 yards. There is absolutly nothing wrong with the penetration or range numbers we give that gun in the OOB's

However, it's a safe bet if you dig deep enough you can find a half dozen different answers to the same question. Wikipedia, for example, gives a maximum range for the 2 pounder at 1000 yards but penetration data out to 1,371 metres ( 1500 yards).

A bit of a conflict of information but typical of what can be found on the net and in text

Don

[_Tim_]

Thanks Don, your answer helps me to appreciate the gameplay mechanics better.

For context, the reason I looked at this weapon was a nasty experience at the hands of a swarm of Daimler A/Cs that punched holes in my limited number of AFVs at over 1km (I was hull-down, they were moving over 10mph). This I couldn't square with WWII accounts of the 2pdr being obsolete due to lack of punch and range. I fully appreciate your comment about the multitude of conflicting accounts. So far I've played most games in the 50s and 60s and it can be a real pain tracking down both data and combat accounts. All credit to the team for the research done on weapons performance, this is the first time I felt aggrieved at getting smoked so badly (normally it's my own fault for dumb tactics).

Looking at the data I guess I just got unlucky with hits on the weaker side armour - but luck is one of the compelling game features. I'll keep the default values and revise tactics next time I see this lot charging over the hill.

Tim

[Mobhack]

Funnily enough, I am playing a UK WW2 L/C, and in the desert just now I use a section of Daimlers to work the flanks of the Panzer 3's as shoot and scoot tank destroyers, since the 2 pounder is quite useful to about a click on the class 3 side armour of the Nazi tanks.

Cheers
Andy

[Marek_Tucan]

_Tim_ said:
This I couldn't square with WWII accounts of the 2pdr being obsolete due to lack of punch and range.

Bear in mind the fact the gun is obsolete doesn't mean it's totally worthless - of course 2pdr against Tiger is a Bad Idea(tm), but even late in the WW2 you can prepare pretty nasty ambushes or shoot-and-scoot plinking on rear/flank of most medium tanks. Not to mention suc small gun is invaluable when you're low on points or to take out APC's and similar stuff when your heavy hitters have only relatively limited ammo supply.