To buy, or not to buy...

[HolyFire]

Hi all. As is quite evident from the title, I have played the demo, and liked it to the point of considering purchasing the game. Just as evident is that I also have doubts about it.

The obvious barrier is the price tag of 55$ + S/H. Trying to avoid a flame war about whether this is justified, I will only say that I find this to be a lot. Should I buy it, I expect to receive a lot in return.

It is clear that the depth, wealth and quality of this game are all quite remarkable. I really have no complaints there. But I think this goes to waste if there are shortcomings in the UI which really hinder the ability to enjoy them. The two major issues that have bothered me while playing the demo are:

a) Automating some tasks: Even in a game as short as in the demo, I have reached a situation where part of my routine for a turn is to go to each of several provinces, set the newly created scholarly oriented commander to research, and order the recruiting of yet another such commander. I really wish there would be a way to do this automatically. Since in many cases I want these commanders to never do anything but research, I would also like the option to make them disappear from the UI, to avoid cluttering my list of more active commanders.

b) Battle commands: I found that the choices for battle orders are very limited. For example, I could not find the option to have filers \ archers target enemy commanders (is this option, perhaps, deliberately absent, as it would be too powerful?). I have also had a problem with spellcasters. I want them to cast useful spells according to the battle situation (preferrably, with the ability to choose the kind of spells to focus on). But instead I must either give them a short list of specific spells to cast (thus pretending to possess the ability to prophesize how the battle will turn out), or let them choose spells on their own and watch them cast useless or even harmful spells.

As such, I would much appreciate everyone's input regarding the following:

1) Are there any changes between the demo and the current full version which help cope with those issues?

2) Are such changes planned for, or are likely to appear in, the near future?

3) Is there any workaround to alleviate these difficulties?

4) Is there any other reason why those issues are not as consequential as I currently believe?

Thanks in advance for whatever insight you might bestow upon me.

[Hadrian_II]

1) in the full version you have more nations to choose from and much more spells to research and cast, so you get lots of stuff.

2) in the patches are not only but fixes, but often new nations and spells

3) You dont have to select the province and then select the leader, you can just press the 'n' key and it will automatically select the next idle leader then you can press shift + 'r' and he is set to research. The target commander option would be much to powerful, as it would be very easy to set up sniper commanders that would kill of enemy mages without much problems.

Also 55$ seems to be lot for a game, but after a year of playing it, the cost i paid per hour of game comes very close to zero.

[quantum_mechani]

HolyFire said:
1) Are there any changes between the demo and the current full version which help cope with those issues?

Not particularly.

2) Are such changes planned for, or are likely to appear in, the near future?

Major overhauls are extremely unlikely, but small extra features are always a possibility.

3) Is there any workaround to alleviate these difficulties?

In the area of battle scripting, there are a large number of tricks for getting mages and units to do as you want. It's still far from perfect, but clever scripting still plays an extremely important part in dominions. And yes, there were formerly attack commander commands in dominions 1, but they were disabled due to their power.

As to the issue of researchers/commander recruiting, it can be a bit of an annoyance, but I find it rare that recruiting mages each turn rarely takes more than a few seconds.

EDIT: It is certainly true that 'n' is invaluable in managing researching and recruitment.

4) Is there any other reason why those issues are not as consequential as I currently believe?

Part of the reason these issues may stand out to someone learning the game, is that it takes time to get a good enough feel for it to strategize properly. Someone just learning may spend a lot of time hitting end turn and just trying stuff out, as opposed to later on playing more competitively and spending more time thinking how to get the most out of their turn than running through the actual mechanics of executing it.

[NTJedi]

HolyFire said:
The obvious barrier is the price tag of 55$ + S/H. Trying to avoid a flame war about whether this is justified, I will only say that I find this to be a lot. Should I buy it, I expect to receive a lot in return.

The $55 price is high, yet the game content is huge. The game offers several methods for making the game increasingly more difficult... so even experts at the game can continue to create interesting/challenging maps. I've played many turn based strategy games and this is one I see keeping for a long time.

HolyFire said:
The two major issues that have bothered me while playing the demo are:

a) Automating some tasks: Even in a game as short as in the demo, I have reached a situation where part of my routine for a turn is to go to each of several provinces, set the newly created scholarly oriented commander to research, and order the recruiting of yet another such commander. I really wish there would be a way to do this automatically. Since in many cases I want these commanders to never do anything but research, I would also like the option to make them disappear from the UI, to avoid cluttering my list of more active commanders.

b) Battle commands: I found that the choices for battle orders are very limited. For example, I could not find the option to have filers \ archers target enemy commanders (is this option, perhaps, deliberately absent, as it would be too powerful?). I have also had a problem with spellcasters. I want them to cast useful spells according to the battle situation (preferrably, with the ability to choose the kind of spells to focus on). But instead I must either give them a short list of specific spells to cast (thus pretending to possess the ability to prophesize how the battle will turn out), or let them choose spells on their own and watch them cast useless or even harmful spells.

A) There are several UI improvements still needed to reduce micromanagement yet in my opinion the other benefits are worth the gameplay.

B) Yes targeting commanders is too powerful and was removed from the very original game. As for spellcasting you can select five spells which are the most important. The harmful spells such as 'touch of madness' or watching your archers wrongfully shoot your own troops in the back as the enemy retreats might be improved with a future patch yet still worth buying the game in my view. All games have flaws and Dominions_3 overall game value is still worth purchasing in my opinion.

HolyFire said:
As such, I would much appreciate everyone's input regarding the following:

1) Are there any changes between the demo and the current full version which help cope with those issues?

2) Are such changes planned for, or are likely to appear in, the near future?

3) Is there any workaround to alleviate these difficulties?

4) Is there any other reason why those issues are not as consequential as I currently believe?

Thanks in advance for whatever insight you might bestow upon me.

1) yes... I'll let someone else give the list, but basically you get lots more game content.

2) the developers keep an updated progress page for what new patches are bringing which can be found in the bug thread.

3) To alleviate your spellcasting issues you can try adjusting the position of your spellcasters and have their last selected spell be either Eagle Eyes or Aim for more accuracy.

4) The issues you listed are annoying and might be fixed within a patch yet the game has more critical issues which need attention. The critical issues can be found in RED within the bug thread.

I do recommend buying the game if you are a turn based strategy fan of such games like: Civ_2, Civ_3, Civ_4, Heroes_3, Age_of_Wonders:2, Lords_of_Magic, and MoM.

[sector24]

I feel exactly the same way that you do about every aspect of the game. $55 is a lot to pay for this game, but at the same time if you're the type of person that enjoys hardcore TBS games then it is definitely worth it. If graphics are what appeal to you, then this game should be about $19.99. Your mind is definitely rewarded more than your eyes.

The most important thing to learn is how to run your nation with a minimal amount of tedium. The automation in this game is lacking compared to other games, so learning how to deploy research centers and recruit in an efficient manner is just as important as knowing what the best spells are and what the magic path boosting items are. If you can't sort out the best way to search for magic sites and give battle order then you'll quickly get tired of the game.

The battle orders are the same in the full version. I find them severely limiting too, and when you're not using thugs and SCs, it barely makes any difference what orders you give to your standard troops.

Having bought the game, I'd definitely buy it again. But the game is very multiplayer oriented, so if you don't have any plans to play with a friend or try one of the public games here on the forums, it has a smaller shelf life. You sound like the kind of person that can make a logical decision as to whether this game is "worth it" or not to you, basically the full version grants you 45ish new nations, full research trees and the ability to play a game from start to finish. It's a lot of content, but if you're frustrated with the fundamentals, the full version won't address those issues.

[Caduceus]

Every couple of weeks, if you think, "Man, I want to get Dominions 3!" Put $10 in a jar. You can get it in less than three months, most likely.

[Jazzepi]

sector24 said:
The battle orders are the same in the full version. I find them severely limiting too, and when you're not using thugs and SCs, it barely makes any difference what orders you give to your standard troops.

This is extremely untrue. Battlefield position and placement of normal units is crucial in larger battles. even beyond the "flankers at the top and bottom."

Jazzepi

[Cor2]

I am a cheapskate. I almost never buy a game new. I almost never buy a game for more than $10. I say almost never because I bought Dominions 2 and 3 new at full price I I dont regret a thing.

Buy the game. Its worth it. If you don't like the AI there are plenty of real world player who will open a can for you.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

I believe its possible to get used to the GUI to such an extent most of the issues become irrelevant, especially if you ever played Master of Magic without a keyboard. Also, in multiplayer, these interface issues are much less pronounced than in singleplayer. If you're doing a turn every 12 or 48 hours, in three very different games, you're going to be checking over most of your empire anyways. In singleplayer, though, you'll will feel the lack of automation.

I believe there is some key to hide researchers, but I'm afraid I don't use it or remember what it is.

Also, the developers aren't afraid to make signficant changes such as new content, but they have mentioned how the dominions engine has become unwieldy, so it's not likely you'll see huge changes into interface and the like.

The empire overview screen isn't as effective as what you might find in some 4x space conquest games, but it will do a lot for reducing some of those problems for you. Try looking at it every turn in the demo, for ten or twenty turns early and late game, and see whether frequent use is enough to reduce your issues to an acceptable level.

I think shift+? can bring up a list of hotkeys, many easy to remember that can assist in play. As well, the virtually undocumented but simple control grouping can help you manage armies.

The manual covers quite a few timesavers at the end, but there are a few shortcuts I don't even know how I learned about, that I haven't seen in the shift-? or the list of hotkeys back in the manual, though I will admit I don't have my manual on hand to doublecheck right now.

[Sombre]

I won't address your list of points, because other people have that in hand.

I just thought I'd say on the subject of 'getting bang for your buck' that Dominions 3 has a pretty active modding community which has produced well over 20 new nations (I've lost count) of varying quality and content. There are also balance mods, pretender mods, some minor graphical mods,...

Modding dom3 I have found both easy to learn and very rewarding. I spend more time tinkering and building new nations than playing the game most of the time. I also leave 3 mods on every time I play the game, namely...

Conceptual Balance Mod (A huge balancing mod)
Streamers and Standards (Spruces up the Dom3 flag graphics)
Worthy Heroes (Adds more heroes to the game and increases their power / utility)

Anyway, as with games like Half Life and Total Annihilation and whanot, you get a lot of customisation and user made mods for your money, on top of what comes in the box.

It's also worth mentioning that these forums, for the most part, kick ***. Useful information, helpful people and very active. They beat using the manual by a mile most of the time.