? on Abbidon (and AI in general)

[justjake73]

I started a game against the Abbidon and within 5 turn and without ANY attacks or doing ANYTHING bad at ALL to them their attitude was "Murderous!!!" HUH??!!!! I restarted, put their demeanor to "Serene" and even took away the "Psychic" ability and made them Very Happy. Five turns after contact they send me a message that "all treaties are broken!" WTF???? Does this happen with any OTHER ai's???

[Marty Ward]

Oh yeah! Don't try to figure out why the AI acts like it does, it will give you headaches. Wait till you have the murderous allies and brotherly enemies

See my latest posting in the TDM-Modpack politics in really big game thread. I summarize the politics of the AI at turn 60. Basically some races are Murderous and some are Brotherly, while others get stuck at some mid-range point like the Sergetti. You can keep a trade pact going with even a Murderous ally by sending a message every turn trading resources. This keeps the AI too busy to send a break treaty message. Once your empire has matured so that your trade pacts are at maximum and you are generating the most resources you can stop sending Messages. They will no longer try to break with you due to poor trade since you have become an important part of their economy.

Several races will turn Murderous immediately after you meet them or a trade pact is established. Just trade with them. Some will improve over time from Murderous while others will get stuck there. Do not worry too much about it.

[God Emperor]

With some races, I think it also depends on whether you are the first race they meet (ie they go murderous on the first race they meet) and whether they are already at war with someone else. I think it also depends on your relative ranking to them as well.

In most games I have played involving the Abbidon, I have found them late in the game when they have been at war and I have been higher in the rankings - as a result they have been quite friendly...

[Q]

The explanation for the behaviour of the Abbidon lies probably in the settings file: They get angry about colonies of allies!

From an old posting in the "TDM-Modpack politics in really big games thread" My questions are STILL not answered. I suppose it is a mystery to all.....

1) Does the TDM-Modpack AI break treaty based on your total number colonies, or colonies in systems he claims, or on your colonies he has actually seen, or on some other basis ? I already know about the per attack location and per ally ship things, but is there any other factor I am missing ? Below is a racial anger summary percent allied colony/ per attack location. Following each race is regular decrease and minimum anger then relation. Last comes estimated number of colonies that will be ok. Is that minimum anger forever, or just when you first meet ? If I can believe this then I should make peace with the Rage until I go MEE now that he is over his initial reaction !! If the regular decrease is 2 and the race gets mad at 20 % and per attack is 2, then with over five colonies seen you lose ground every turn. Is that right ? If so then as the AI explores and sees more of my colonies, they will get angry very soon....

0/2 Eee -4/0 not met - any - (went Brotherly)
0/2 Phong -4/0 brotherly MA 15 - any
0/2 Toltayan -4/0 brotherly TR 9 - any
0/3 Rage -2/30 moderate war - make peace ? - any - (did NOT offer)

10/2 Cue Cappa -4/0 angry war - make peace ? - 20 (ALL offers rejected at Brotherly)
10/2 Ukra Tal -4/0 brotherly TR 20 - 20
10/2 Colonials -3/0 brotherly P 16 - 15
10/2 Piundan -2/20 receptive MA 15 - 10

20/2 Narn -3/0 brotherly TR 20 - 7
20/2 Toron -3/0 brotherly P 20 - 7
20/2 Sallegra -3/0 murderous war - make peace ? - 7 - (DID and it worked)
20/2 Amonkrie -2/30 moderate TA 0 just did - 5

30/2 Abbidon -3/0 not met - 5
30/2 Drushocka -3/0 displeased war - 5 - (Peace WORKED)
30/2 Cryslonite -2/20 warm TA 7 - 3
30/2 Sergetti -2/30 warm TR 20 - 3

35/5 Pyrochette -3/0 receptive TR 7 hmmm...... - 1 (improved to Brotherly)
40/2 Krill -2/20 murderous just broke treaty but not war yet - 2 - (peace WORKED)
40/5 Xichung -1/20 Murderous (break soon ?) TR 20 - half a colony ? - (NEVER broke)
The Xichung will hate anybody they trade with ! Is that right ? It seems they are as confused as the Rage! There must be some other factor operating besides regular decrease, otherwise they would have broken treaty long ago!

Ship Anger is also interesting. Nobody cares about ships except as noted below. Values are per no treaty/ per ally/ per enemy ship
Love allied fleets! Narn 1/-1/1 Toron 1/-1/1
Do not get mad at enemies! Amonkrie 2/0/0 Cryslonite 1/0/0 Krill 1/0/0
Ally ships ok Colonials 1/0/1 Piundan 1/0/1 Rage 3/0/2 Sergetti 2/0/1 Xichung 3/0/4
Mad at any ships Pyrochette 2/1/3

If I can believe that, then my relations with the Krill will be better if I declare war ! And is it my total ships known by treaty (impossible!), ships seen (not likely), or just those in systems claimed by the AI ? In any case it looks like I have a problem with the Pyrochette. I do not want to change any of the settings, but would appreciate any insights offered by the race creaters.

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Also as I noted in my latest posting in "TDM-Modpack politics in really big games" the way other races see YOU may be important. All races in slots 1-13 may see you as Brotherly, but those in slots 14-20 (normally used only by Neutral empires) will at best see you as Moderate. I suspect this is an undisclosed feature, not a bug. So put the Brotherly empires noted in those slots and the Murderous ones in the early slots. The "some other factor" operating is how much of their economy is based on trade with you. If losing you will put them in a bind then they WILL NOT BREAK unless severely provoked. Provocations are bad political Messages, planting too many colonies (40+), huge jumps in score from building all your robotoid factories at once, and of course going Mega Evil Empire....

As I said before you can get a treaty on first contact with anybody by offering a gift package of trade treaty plus 4k/3k/3k resources PROVIDED your score is at least 150% of his. You can boost your score by lots of ships/ bases which count one point per 100kt of hull size regardless of what is on board. So build lots of empty hulls with just a bridge, life support and crew quarters until you rank number one, then go out and meet everybody. When you have plenty of income and more tech you can retrofit the hulls to the latest design in a multiple retrofit sequence, saving yard time. The FIRST thing you retrofit is repair bays/yards so that a few hulls can retrofit all the rest. Space stations for yards are very useful and score five points each....

[This message has been edited by LCC (edited 24 June 2001).]