Any Man Advice

[OmikronWarrior]

I'm working on a Late Age Man strategy and am wondering if anybody has any advice to share, especially about ways to use their Magister's Arcane. I figure on Wind Guide and Shockwave, but thats about it. Any other ideas?

[DrPraetorious]

Shockwave is not so hot.

Note that Wind Guide is actually "mass aim", so it helps people who cast damaging spells such as thunderstrike hit more often. This is a big deal.

To summarise, this is my recommended research order:
Const 6 (if you can get this far without fighting another player), Alter 4, Ench 6, Conj 3, Thau 1, Evoc 6

The basic (AAES) guys aren't much use in combat - unless an opponent is trying super-combatants, in which case by all means cast lightning bolt until you're blue in the face. They aren't even good communion slaves (since they have a high enc from being old.) Nonetheless, that's probably the best use for them in combat - otherwise, leave them at home to make science. If you cast storm, they can all cast Storm Power and then follow up with some useful spells (see AAAES below.)

AAAES can cast Arrow Fend (ench 6), Thunderstrike and the various ghost spells are probably your best bet for spells to spam.
AAEES can cast Summon Earthpower to get to E3, and then cast blade wind (evoc, against Mictlan) or Destruction (alter, against armored opponents,) or Gifts from Heaven (evoc, against giants).
AAEFS can cast Power of the Spheres (Conj) and then Phoenix Power (Conj) to cast real fire magic, particularly flaming arrows (Ench) which is very nice for your all archer army. Otherwise, you can make them communion masters, and then have them follow the flaming arrows with magma eruption (evoc). Astral fires is also a great spell but I think magma eruption is better.
AAESS can cast several utility spells (anti-magic, ench), or if you give them a 4-man communion they can cast enslave mind (thau) and other sexy astral stuff.

As Man, you probably want to spend most of your gems on combat magic and research items. Your military is pretty competent all around - you can make trolls and things if you have a gem glut but it's seldom really worth the trouble. A few boosting items can be useful - if you make a Communion Matrix, for example, and put it on a mage on the bottom of the batting order, you can get spells like Arrow Fend off on the first turn, which can make a big difference, actually.
Anyway, the spells you want are:
Forge Quills (Const 2)
Legions of Steel (Const 3)
Forge Lightless Lanterns (Const 6)
The various power-boosting spells (Conj 3)
Communion (Thau 1)
Flaming Arrows (Ench 4)
Arrow Fend (Ench 6)
Ghost Wolves (Alter 3)
Destruction (Alter 4)
Curse of Stones (Alter 4)
Wind Guide (Alter 4)
Phantasmal Army (Alter 5)
Phantasmal Army (Alter 6)
Thunder Strike (Evoc 4)
Blade Wind (Evoc 4)
Gifts from Heaven (Evoc 5)
Magma Eruption (Evoc 6)

For the late game, the following spells are really nuts:
Mists of Deception (Ench 8)
Fog Warriors (Alter 7)
Will of the Fates (Alter 8)
Army of Gold (Alter 9)
Master Enslave (Thau 9)

All of this should be cast while driven by a communion. Mater enslave requires a 32 member communion to be practical at all - but it really is a terrific spell.

[MaxWilson]

Couldn't you do it with 16 and an S2 Magister Arcane?

S2
Communion Master(16 slaves, +4S) = S6
Power of the Spheres (1 pearl, +1S) = S7
Light of the Northern Star (1 pearl, +1S, cast by someone else) = S8
Master Enslave (requires S8)

Throw in a couple of item boosters and it should be quite practical with 4-8 communion slaves. Unless, I mean, you've got oodles of communion slaves hanging around anyway.

-Max

[DrPraetorious]

The issue is - do you want the slaves to live? Also, do you want to cast any other spells out of your communion? (answer: yes, you absolutely do, master enslave is great but not THAT great.)

8 Slaves -> Slaves are S4, Fatigue = 800 * 5 / 8 = 500, so instead death.
16 Slaves -> Slaves are S5, Fatigue = 800 * 4 / 16 = 200, so inatant death.
Okay, the actual fatigue the units can survive is:
200 + 9 (hit points) - 25 (for communion slave) - 20 (encumberance * 4 personal cost for master enslave) = 166.
20 Slaves -> 800 * 4 / 20 = 160.

So you can get one off if you have 20 slaves. BUT you can't cast anything else through the communion! This is very bad.

32 Slaves -> Slaves are S6, Fatigue = 800 * 2 / 32 = 50.

So, if you have 32 slaves, you can have two communion masters casting it AT THE SAME TIME. Now we're cooking with gas.

[OmikronWarrior]

Thanks for the all the useful information Doc, it really is a lot to take in a think about. A couple of questions though. Let me first say when I said shockwave I actually meant thunderstrike.

Do your calculations still hold when taking into 3-Drain domain? I believe that adds 30% to fatigue costs, to say nothing of increased MR to spells such as Master Enslave. And considering the lack of a research penalty for taking 3-Drain, it makes to much sense to pass that by. Sure, not all battles all fought on your domain, but a good portion of them must be.

Can there actually be a time when its useful to reduce the efficacy of archers for Man by casting spells like Mists of Deception or creating Storms? The fact that Man's heavy line infantry comes equiped with crossbows strikes backed by very long ranged archers strikes me as a big advantage for the nation. Cast wind guide and a lot more of those bolts hit. What I find is really helpful is the entire square of Defenders can fight if you set them to fire, as those in the back will shoot while those in the front stab.

Finally, can you clarify how Common Master/Slave distributes fatigue? Does the spell calculate how much fatigue the Master would have acquired had he cast the spell alone and then distribute it among the Slaves, or does it divided the given fatigue up and act like each slave/master cast the spell for that amount of fatigue and reduce it from there?

I'm sure I'll think of more thoughts later, but thats all for now, thanks a lot.

[Wish]

man advice, man advice?

after you fight eachother, sit down and share a beer - you have a new friend...

um, never date a best friends ex, without his explicit consent

no man is required to buy a birthday present for another man.

If you've known a guy for more than 24 hours, his sister is off limits forever, unless you actually marry her.

When stumbling upon another Man watching a sporting event, you may always ask the score of the game in progress, but you may never ask who's playing.

oh wait... you mean the nation....

[thejeff]

On another front for LA Man, don't forget the regular Magisters and the Judges.

Spies are always good, and some of them wind up with useful magic.

The Judges can get both Fire and Death, for Flaming skulls, and the fire ones can then, with Phoenix Power, cast Flaming Arrows.

Both can be built without labs, which is a nice feature.

[Manuk]

If you have more skill than the required path the fatigue cost is lowered. so with skill 9 you only pay half.
32 is too much but it's ok to add penetration wich is BADLY needed.

[Shovah32]

LA Man? Make alot of use of longbows and defenders and try to research buffs for defenders quickly(they rock ).

I like heavy scales with an awake/dormant SC pretender(usually a prince of death or cyclops) for expansion. My favourite summon for LA Man are by far gargoyles, decent offensive strength and very tough, and they fly!

[DrPraetorious]

Manuk - that's true, and if your skill is 1 *less* than what is required, you pay double.

The communion slaves pay their share of the fatigue as I discuss in my post - 32 is not too much.