Script and campaign scenery / Alternate history

[Pyros]

Script and campaign scenery / Alternate history

This is the place where we must write the scenery/Novel of the camapaign.
This is a very important and crucial activity for the early stages of the project and we must take into consideration all parameters related with the later designing phase of the project.
The most important thing is to relate the commanding level (army size) with the appropriate historical events/battles.
We also have to take into consideration a connectivity factor between the various mission types and also a logical evolution of events.

http://www.screamingeaglesthroughtime.com/id88.html

http://www.gruntonline.com/TheWar/the_war.htm

http://www.vfw.org/magazine/aug97/38.shtml

http://www.war-stories.com/

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/7963/sontay.htm

[Double_Deuce]

I have been thinking about thisa little. Maybe we should develop a character and simulate his journey through the standard 1 year tour of duty in Vietnam. We could always have him come back say in a year or so for another tour in a different position.

For example;
Character shows up in Vietnam as a 2nd Lt. (Platoon Leader) and goes through a 1 year tour. Promoted to 1st Lt. during this time. Goes back to the states for a couple months/1 year. Promoted to Captain during this time. Goes back to Nam as Company Commander. Does his 1 year tour and then back to the states. Promoted to Major (say while assigned to an Academy (War College, etc) as an instructor. Over time he is promoted to Major, then Lt. Col. Upon promotion to Lt. Col goes back to Nam as Battalion Commander.

We could ID 3 major operations/campaigns during in Vietnam that we could believably fit his character into. Then use those 3 campaigns/time frames to break the overall project out into. We would thoroughly research each and build them as seperate Campaigns. Then concentrate on building each.

[Pyros]

Hi DD,

and welcome to everyone!

Nice ideas there, but this mean that we have to do 3 independent campaigns (1 small, 1 medium and 1 large), instead of one.

If you take account the amount of time to make 1 complete campaign or 3 part-time campaigns, it is almost the same. On the other hand, one of the strong elements of a campaign is the building and evolution of the core force in addition with the fact that a player becomes sentimentally attached with his core force.
So, in the evolution of the campaign the player will try to protect his experienced troops (1st platoon) and he will have a core army with different experience levels (he will command veterans and rookies).
On the other hand what you propose is better from historical accuracy and way more easily from script point of view.
Look, what I suggest...
We do both ways!
We start with the synthesis of complete campaign and then by using the theatre of operations (maps, info etc) we split the campaign to smaller parts.

There is also another possibility...

The platoon will start as a "platoon"... US military advisors or Special Operation team in the early years of the conflict... and then in the theatre of Operations No2 they will be attached to Company (serving in another theatre of Operations ToO).
Then all this formation in the next ToO will be transferred as an attachment to a battalion fighting in the new ToO.

This way we may still keep a certain degree of historical accuracy by taking into consideration the actual units that fought in certain major battles with only a minimal addition of an independent attachment of for example a platoon in a company, and a company in a battalion.
I think such small modifications won't heart the historical accuracy of a complete campaign (and the gameplay benefits are very important).
The player not only will have the opportunity to experience the progressive increase in the level of command (Platoon then Company then Battalion then Reinforced Battalion), but in addition he won't lose his interest from playing the campaign (this usually happens when a player is playing several battles with the same core force).

Anyway, I agree with you. It is very easy to make it both ways, 1 complete and 3 smaller part-time campaigns.

[Double_Deuce]

As you say 1 campaign would probably be best. Maybe this base one could be used to set the stage for a 2nd and 3rd Campaign to be added later (should it be desired) as sequals like books in a series. Each time the character comes back in a different part of the War with a different rank/unit. What we will do this time is build the 1st "book".

To start, a new Lt. arriving for his tour. When, where and with who?

[Pyros]

...and here the story begins... LOL

[narwan]

Been thinking about the feel and mood of the campaign too. Sofar i've come up with 5 different possible concepts for the campaign:

1) regular army security operations. This would be what the bulk of the combat forces would have been engaged in for most of the time (think Tour of duty). Emphasis would be on dense terrain (lots of jungle), guerilla style combat, probably more defensive in nature (from US pov), opponents mostly VC. ME's and advance/delays mostly?

2) Marines near the border with north Vietnam. This would be more akin to regular combat operations instead of guerilla style. Terrain would be more open and the adversaries would mainly be NVA. More assaults/defends?

3) Airmobile operations. This offers a great variety in possible conditions, but is primairily an offensive tool so advances, assaults and ME's seem more likely scenario's.

4) Mekong delta patrols. Lot's of patrol boats, hovercrafts etc, and maps with lots of 'wet terrain'. The craft would act as a sort of light armor and transport at the same time.
Opponents would almost exclusively be VC, assault and defend scenario's seem less plausible here (due to terrain).

5) special forces operations. Not really what I think would best suit this campaign but it's an option. Lot's of options for scenario's here.

Comments and criticism welcome!

Remco

[Pyros]

Welcome Remco,

We must take account 2 very important parameters:

1. The Increase in the level of command with each new Theatre of Operations
2. Historical accuracy in each Theatre of Operations (concerning the units involved)

Based on these parameters I try to find the best type of unit to fit the platoon (or couple of platoons) force size.
For the moment (since this have to be in the early era of the conflict), I am trying to see how the "special forces" type may fit, in the type of cover operations combat.
This will be historically accurate and may still be playable due to the nature of operations.

Then, in the next Theatre of Operations No2 this platton may be attached to the new selection (company level).
What could be this selection? Could this selection (company) be a regular army company or could it be an airborne company?
In addition, the attachment of a lonely special forces platoon to this company command level won't harm the historical accuracy (on the contrary, I think this was a fact in the A SHAU valley).
In the third Theatre of operations the force connectivity issue will be more difficult. We should connect this (for example) Airborne Company to a Battalion (as attachment?).

But in the bottom line, my opinion is that we shouldn't sacrifice the gameplay part of the campaign for achieving a 100% historical accuracy.

What would happened if for example the core force was open (free)?

Don't worry my friend Remco, we will make several versions of this project.
Once the structure is complete (maps, coding, mission types etc...) any modification (even in the core force) won't be a problem.

[Pyros]

For the Platoon (platoons) level of command (theatre of Operations) ToO No1, I propose:

Nam Dong, Lang Vei, Dak To, A Shau, Plei Mei - these were just some of the places Special Forces troops fought and died for during their 14-year stay in South Vietnam. It was a stay that began in June 1956 when the original 16 members of the 14th Special Forces Operational Detachment entered Vietnam to train a cadre of indigenous Vietnamese Special Forces teams. In that same year, on October 21, the first American soldier died in Vietnam - Captain Harry G. Cramer Jr. of the 14th SFOD.

Throughout the remainder of the 1950s and early 1960s, the number of Special Forces military advisors in Vietnam increased steadily. Their responsibility was to train South Vietnamese soldiers in the art of counterinsurgency and to mold various native tribes into a credible, anti-communist threat. During the early years, elements from the different Special Forces groups were involved in advising the South Vietnamese. But in September 1964, the first step was taken in making Vietnam the exclusive operational province of 5th Group when it set up its provisional headquarters in Nha Trang. Six months later in February, Nha Trang became the 5th's permanent headquarters. From that point, Vietnam was mainly the 5th's show until 1971 when it returned to Fort Bragg.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...c-history4.htm

AFTER ACTION REPORTS

163 pages of after action reports. Reports include:

After Action Report for 5th Special Forces Group - February 17, 1963: This Report covers the establishment of Civilian Irregular Defense Group.

After Action Report for Operation CORONADO X, January 18 through February 12, 1968: Just before the 1968 lunar new year (Tet) truce, the 2nd Brigade of the 9th Infantry Division launched riverine operations in the marshlands of the Mekong Delta under the code name CORONADO X. An Army-Navy mobile riverine force searched out the Viet Cong's main force and local battalions in a combination of riverine, search and destroy, patrolling, and interdiction operations. When the Viet Cong violated the temporary truce by attacking eight major cities in the delta, the mission of the mobile riverine force was refocused toward crushing the Tet offensive. In Operation CORONADO X new equipment and techniques had to be developed for tactical mobility and fire support in the delta area, where conventional techniques were only marginally effective. The terrain was, for the most part, inundated. Swamps, rice paddies, irrigation ditches, rivers, and canals, while inhibiting the mobility of regular U.S. forces, had been used to advantage by the enemy.
http://www.specialoperations.com/His...m/Default.html
http://newark.rutgers.edu/~natalieb/vietnam.htm
http://www.militaryunits.com/vietnam.htm

[narwan]

Nothing against special forces, on the contrary. The main reason I felt it might not best suit this campaign as the base formation is because that there already is a campaing that starts out like that if I'm not mistaken (your greek campaign).

Also special forces already start out at high experience levels and I would prefer to see the troops start out 'green' and advance to 'special' status. With enough experience, regular forces can act much like special forces.

I don't mean the entire campaing to be limited to just one of the different option I suggested, a combination can work just fine. For example the airmobile and Mekong delta concepts work better at the lower end (platoon and company size core force) while the marines v NVA regular battles work better at the larger end (company and battallion sized core force). I can easily imagine the core formation advancing through the different concepts (from patrolling to airmobile operations to large scale battles).

Personally I like the Mekong idea because it can offer something quite new, the use of boats as more than just off shore support weapons.

Don't worry about criticizing or shooting holes in my ideas, I'm just thinking out loud here. Just throwing things out there and see where they lead. I'm trying to get a better feel of what this campaign is going to be like (and trying to look at it from an end-users point of view).

Remco

[Boonierat]

Ok, here's a couple of random thoughts:

-Marine campaign: I think we should scrap the idea right away, they fought only in I CTZ (execpt for a few SLF ops) which offers very few changes of scenery and no connection possible with army units.

So go for either :
-An "elite" unit campaign, airborne-oriented. It could start in the 1st Cav 1965-66 in II CTZ with battle in the highlands of Nam (Ia Drang) and the Coastal province of Binh Dinh (Op. Masher etc...), then switch to the 173d Airborne Brigade (1966-1967) with the major operations around Saigon III CTZ (Attleboro, Cedar Falls, Junction City - we could even squeeze the sole major airborne drop of the war here), then I CTZ and the 101st Airborne and the A Shau valley campaign of 1968-69.

-A Grunt campaign, with the likes of the 4th Infantry in the Highlands, the 25th Infantry around Saigon and the 9th Infantry in the Delta (which would offer a great variety of terrain and ops - but maybe with less appeal)

but maybe I'm wrong to articualte this campaign around three tours of service?