obat06: France

narwan · #1 June 26th, 2005, 03:06 PM

This thread is for information concerning the french OB.

The 'canon 90mmF1' comes with sabot rounds on one version of the AMX-13/90 but has an APCR penetration value of 0.

Both the '20mmMle 693' and the '25mmMle 811' have the same penetration and range values for both the AP and sabot rounds for these weapons (5 for the 639 and 8 for the 811). Certain vehicles armed with either of these guns come with both types of ammo (e.g. AMX-10P, VBCI). Although it may not actually be an error it seems strange to equip a unit with (more expensive) sabot rounds if they offer no benefit over regular AP rounds so I suspect there might be an error here. Right now I have no info on specific penetration abilities on the two types of ammo; perhaps someone out there does?

Narwan

PlasmaKrab · #2 June 26th, 2005, 03:11 PM

Maybe that is a way to balance fairly between primary and secondary weapon.
If your weapon is in any slot other than the first, it will have only HE or AP, and no sabot.
So for A/Cs, particularly 20mm Mod693, which is coax on the AMX30, you will want to keepp the same sabot ammo as if it was in the first slot.
Being coax is no reason for having degraded ammo!

narwan · #3 June 26th, 2005, 03:24 PM

Sure, but you can make a 'separate' weapon for it to distinguish between primairy and secondairy weapon slots. For the units where it is a primairy weapon (like the two types I mentioned) you can have the actual differentiated values. If there is a difference in actual performance that is.

I had thought about including a question in my first post on how the game distinguishes between AP and sabot for the AMX30 (in other words, is the value used there the right one for for AP penetration or for sabot penetration?).

PlasmaKrab · #4 June 26th, 2005, 03:34 PM

Erm, sorry to tell you, but there are.

Nevertheless, both weapons (one for secondary and one for primary) have the very same ratings, including same AP and sabot PEN and range.
Which is quite annoying I grant you.

But behold, what ammo do you pout into your coax 20mm? If you have BOTH AP and APDS handy; and can fit only one? Maybe that's why there are similar capacities for both.

No, wait, the AP vs Sabot rating changes in the AMX10P with the time.
So I guess it was meant to improve something.

Maybe APCR rounds are hard-coded to give better results but I doubt it, since it can also represent weaker AP round.

To put it shortly, dunno

narwan · #5 June 26th, 2005, 05:52 PM

Don't be sorry, I already assumed there was a difference!

For the coax weapon it's indeed tricky to decide what value to use if the unit was equiped with both AP and sabot. But for primairy weapons there shouldn't be a problem to differentiate.

Let's see if anyone can come up with some penetration specs for the two ammo types (for both the 693 and 811).

narwan

PlasmaKrab · #6 June 26th, 2005, 06:09 PM

(Nearly) got it!

Got some tech spefs for latest tungsten-core AP-T 20mm ammo for 20*102mm gun M621, while the M693 uses 20*139mm cartridge!

However, this 20*139 cartridge is also used by Rheinmetall's Rh-202, in the US M-139 and Oerlikon's KAD/HS830, which you can all find in the oobs. I guess the pen. specs should be nearly the same. Barrel length shouldn't vary wildly, and I'd the ammo is NATO standard!

So maybe this can elp. And I'll try to extract some more info from there:
http://www.giat-industries.fr/asp/us/feu.asp

Cheers, and good hunt!

Plasma

SCAJolly · #7 June 26th, 2005, 08:50 PM

ICON error: Unit 055, AMX-30 Roland ('86-2020). While the Roland for 'xx-'85 (#54) displays the correct icon during play, the most modern one does not. It's icon features the chassis without the turret, as well as three men loading the "gun" (as seen on most field gun-pieces). Strange thing is that both these units use the same icons.
Could someone doublecheck this one for me?

Mobhack · #8 June 26th, 2005, 09:25 PM

Quote:

SCAJolly said:
ICON error: Unit 055, AMX-30 Roland ('86-2020). While the Roland for 'xx-'85 (#54) displays the correct icon during play, the most modern one does not. It's icon features the chassis without the turret, as well as three men loading the "gun" (as seen on most field gun-pieces). Strange thing is that both these units use the same icons.
Could someone doublecheck this one for me?

Shows the correct icon for me - in green or desert conditions. (Tried vs FRG and Egypt in 86). Ditto in Mobhack as for the game.

Have you loaded SHP files from another source?
Is this in a scenario? A modified OOB?

Cheers
Andy

SCAJolly · #9 June 26th, 2005, 09:38 PM

Weird.

Self-made scenario, no tweaks whatsoever. When I tried the units this time, they all looked fine. Perhaps winSP turns a bit erratic the same way DOSSP did, with that file you had to delete every now and then?

I actually took a screenshot of this, but it turned out black and mushy.

narwan · #10 June 28th, 2005, 09:02 AM

Some formation errors(?):

The mech legion and mot legion companies don't have apc's or trucks for the HQ squad (formations 100, 105, 111).

The RIMA companies (198, 204) are supposed to have platoons with RIMA trucks/VLRA's according to the OOB editor but when generating a battle they come with platoons without transport while the HQ does have a transport. Not a big problem since you can replace these platoons with loose RIMA platoons that do have transport. And it gives you the option of having a RIMA company without transport; but since the formation doesn't appear in the editor I thought I'd mention it.

Narwan