Some newbie thoughts...

[Lizard]

OK, a few Newbie thoughts...

a)Damn, this game is addictive.

b)Is it just me, or are fighters WAY too powerful? I had an unhappy encouter with some blue-skinned religious nuts to my south. Despite my gifts and overtures of peace, they launched attacks on my colonies. My first battles with them, I got creamed -- they had Capital Ship Missiles 4 and 5, and my ships were particle-cannon heavy -- I couldn't close before I was decimated. Mining the wormholes gave me some breathing room. I also found out that while my carriers were shredded by his missiles, the fighters they launched could destory his ships utterly, if they could close to firing range -- he had no anti-fighter weapons at all. Over time, I developed point-defense weapons and improved my fleet design. I started winning most battles, then pushed forward, and am now carrying the battle to my foe! Woohoo! My question, though, is why the AI didn't do what I did --- adapt to the enemies tactics. He used missiles;I researched point defense. I used mines, but he never developed minesweepers -- he kept throwing his ships at the wormhole until the mines were gone. (I spent a lot of time re-mining the wormholes)

BTW, do you even NEED carriers? It seems fighters can travel just fine on their own. I send out fighter Groups to meet whatever ships come through the wormhole and devestate them nicely. Is this a bug? Are fighters supposed to be independant?

In the inevitable 'features I'd like' department -- firing arcs to make tactical combat more intricate, and the ability to save ship designs to a file -- it would be nice to develop a standard 'fleet' and reload them as the tech becomes available. (If this feature exists already, I apologize, but the interface is pretty, uhm, complex and I know I haven't seen it all)

Lastly, is there any such thing as 'formation -- none' in tactical mode? Every time I move one ship, the rest do this silly little dance and screw up my tactics...

[Seawolf]

Lizard,

1 forget firing arc that is too tactiacl and the computer could nto handle it.

2 Formation none in tatical there is an option button. Click on it and a menu will show up with like 9 options. One of them is to clear formations. Do that and each ship will move alone and not as part of a formation. Also if you move the formation leader Last then no one else will have any movement points to move.

3 Fighters are not too powerful you just have to defend against it.

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Seawolf on the prowl

[Taqwus]

On fighters, well, they can't traverse warp points by themselves -- to do so, you need a carrier. They also can run out of supply fairly quickly without support... and I don't like using them for long-distance offense because they die QUICKLY against PDCs, and replacing them in enemy space is a bear (either stop to build *slowly* with spaceyard ships, or do carrier chaining); I prefer building advanced, self-sufficient fleets that can wreak as much havoc as need be without ever needing to return to port. As for the AI not adapting, well, it's scripted in many aspects, such as ship design and research... which isn't surprising given that Malfador isn't exactly a huge company employing dozens of AI specialists, which might still be insufficient for such a *customizable* game due to the extreme number of degrees of freedom. And on formations... ISTR that there's a command to 'clear assignments' or 'clear orders' in tactical mode, which basically removes every ship from formation.

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

[Lizard]

Thanks for the info re:fighters. In the battle I was involved in (It's still pretty early in the game, I just researched Cruisers, for example), I was mostly defending one world near a wormhole, so it was easy to use 'supportless' fighters. I can see where it would be problematic later on. Fortunately, my new 'All PD' ship seems to be doing a good job of protecting my carriers and attack ships, so they can close to fight. Next -- trying to board and capture.

Other question:How useful are the 'exotic' weapons (weapon&engine damage)? Is it useful to build ships which use them, or should I stick to bigger guns and missiles?

[raynor]

In the beginning of the game, fighters are INCREDIBLY powerful--especially if you mass produce them at all your colonies. IMHO, one of the best things about fighters is the fact that they don't affect your score or your maintenance costs. So, you can put a couple hundred of them at every wormhole leading into your empire. The early game equivalent of ships would make you MEE *WAY* too early plus the maint costs might strangle your empire.

This is a very minor note. But you don't need to use a carrier to send fighters through wormholes. Transports work just as well. (Or, minesweepers, or satellite layers). Of course, you can't attack a planet with fighters in a transport. But if you can capture or destroy/recolonize one planet in a system. Then, you can transport in fighters and transfer 1000 fighters per turn between your transport(s) / the planet and then launch them back into space. Once you have a sizeable group in space, you can send them to attack the planets.

Before the AI researches Point Defense cannons, your fighters are better off in small Groups so one weapon shot doesn't kill three or four of them. But once the AI has lots of point defense, I think you are better off sending them in very large Groups. Two Groups of 90 fighters launched from a planet can be quite devastating against a heavily defended planet with PD V's whereas you would lose them all if you launched them from a pair of light carriers.
(Of course, this tactic requires tons of micro management and is pretty tedious vs. just using ships.)

[Nitram Draw]

One thing you have to watch out for with fighters, mines and satellites is the maximum number of units in space limit. Be careful you don't deploy so much in your safer systems that you can't deploy in the ones under attack. The default is now 1000 units in space, I think. Fighters and mines can eat this up in a hurry.

[Possum]

Lizard, just a quick comment. I totally agree with your idea of creating "all-PD" ships. This allows a really quick fix to a situation in which you're suddenly overwhelmed by fighters or missiles.

Historically, there is an interesting parallel in the WW2 US Navy's use of the Atlanta-class CLAA's. The Atlanta herself first saw action at Midway, and proved to be a big success.

[AJC]

The limit on ships and units is 5000. You can make a permanent change in your settings file - so you dont have to click it up to higher levels everytime you play -
Space Empires IV\Data\Settings.txt

change them to 5000 as I have shown and you never have to adjust the settings again.

at the bottom of the long list are two catagories
Default Number Of Units Per Player := 5000
Default Number Of Ships Per Player := 5000




[This message has been edited by AJC (edited 13 March 2001).]

[pathfinder]

lizard/possum: also remember there is currently a US Navy system called Aegis (anti-missile/fighter stuff) ...

[Will]

Just a reply for those who say fighters are destroyed too easily... the most effective design I have takes 2 shots from a PDC before having one destroyed. Large Fighter, 1xCockpit,1xLifeSupport,3xEngines,1xAfterburners,1 xSmallShield,1xCombatSensors,1xECM,1xTimeDistortio nBurst,3xElectricDischarge. The major thing with this design is you need both Temporal and Organic technology, although I'm sure a modified design that is nearly as effective could be made with one or the other tech, or with just standard tech.

Against shields, one fighter will do a max of 120kT damage, and against armor a max of 75kT. Multiplied over a group of 10 or 20, they become quite leathal, and if you use decoy fighters (same as above, only take out weapons and replace with shields) to draw away PDC and weapons fire, they can take out quite a few ships. On top of warps, I've had a group of 11 (one turn's build with Temporal yard on a 4B pop planet) take out AI cruisers, since both ships start very close, the enemy has no chance to defend.

I believe in my AI probing game I destroyed 250kT in ships before it became too much of a hassle to ferry fighters to the front lines and my capital ship design was doing so well (5mT destroyed thus far I believe, 112 constructed, 6 lost).

Now, for the "exotic" weapons as you call them: I believe they are some of the most underrated weapons in the game. Granted, it's not something you want to fill every ship with, but if you have one of these on each of your main attack ships, it can be very useful. Against the AI, I would normally go for big guns, one Ionic Disperser, one Tachyon Disruption Cannon, one or two PDC. The PDC take care of most missiles and fighters, a barrage from the TDC and a shot from the ID (I'll be abbreviating from now on will disable ships so you can mop them up later and focus more guns on the others. ID are also useful for dropping into a range of six and disabling the movement on several ships, then moving out of direct-fire weapons range (which is 8). That way, a relatively small fleet can effectively disable, target, and destroy large fleets (don't try in strategic mode, the AI doesn't use 'em very effectively).

I think I caught everything I wanted to reply to...