Anyone interested in a playable B5 mod, read here

[Ragnarok-X]

Hey,

some of you may know the B5 mod for SE4. Due to some rather strange decisions (gameplay-wise) the mod is almost unplayable. A ongoing pbw game is actually quite unfunny (call it..."work"), so i decided to improve the mod.
A huge update was done a few month ago by pathfinder, grumbler, Tim.
Still the problem is the buildtime of facilites, usually it takes at least 25+ turns to construct a facility, and once finished it gives only a slight bonus (like 250) research points.

Anyways: Those of you that are interested in a further revised b5 mod, i need your help.
I have two ideas.
First would be to keep the entire researchtree and all components and to only redo the facilites/buildtimes.
Im thinking about simply putting the standart SE4 facilites in the b5 mod, so you simply construct a tradeport, a few mining facilites, or research centers, whatever you like. Of course racial facilites would stay, or else the flair of the mod would be killed.
The second idea would be to keep the entire mod, researches, components and facilites and just fiddle with the buildtimes. This would include messing with the 1500 population modifers, so 10 million worlds would not produce at 5% efficency.

What do you like more, and who be willing to participate in b5 mod game in pbw, once the mod is "revised" and playable ?


thanks for reading, all kinds of comments are welcome.


p.s. please no offense like "This mod was made by Val, and he wanted the game to progress very slow, so you have to keep the spirit"

[TNZ]

Why not just have two completely different B5 mods? It would also be a good idea to make it more AI friendly in the same way as the Star Trek Mod is. [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Flag_NewZeland.gif[/img]

[Atrocities]

I think your on to something Rag X. The B-5 mod has been on ongoing mod without going anywhere for a good long time. A complete revamp of the mod would be in order. Hell I would like to play a b5 mod before SE V comes out.

[Timstone]

WEEEE!!! I'm back again! Okay, I just had to say that.
I've been sooo busy working and doing another study (I'm close to graduating again) that I didn't have any time left for this sweet good funny helpful fantastic forum and it's residents. Fear not, I'm back!

Now that's of my chest I begin on my reply on this very important issue.
RagsX your idea is commendable. I tried that some time ago too (reviving the B5 Mod). I got very good help and ideas from Grumbler, in the end he did most of the work. Unfortunately 99% of our work wasn't published (for lack of a better word). I really would like to help you, but due to my forthcoming graduation I can't do much. I can however do textediting work for you and provide you with ideas or help you with graphics for the mod.
The main reason why B5 Mod 2.0 never got published was because of timerestraints and the overwhelming amount of work.
If you're interested in help just send me a PM and I'll send you my e-mail adres.

[Onyx]

Bump.

[gregebowman]

I'm just waiting for a playable B5 mod. Just give me that for Christmas. But since I can't seem to get on-line at home no more than once every couple of weeks, the pbw Version would be impractical for me (not that I've ever playing any pbw games, anyway). Just as long as there a good playable solo Version of the game, I'll be happy.

[Ragnarok-X]

Im still looking for 1 or 2 people to help me out. Doing it all alone isnt that funny and more its good to exchange opinions. Im still waiting for timstones latest reply


*hint-hint* @ timstone

[Timstone]

Oh no, did I miss something?
I'm terribly sorry. Maybe it got lost in the high seas of the internet.
Please send it again or post it here.

[Ragnarok-X]

Well i have no idea, i send you the email two times, about 3 weeks and about 2 weeks ago.

Anyways, i guess ill post it here, looking for feedback






Hey man,
i got the files and took a look at them. Great work so far, here are my thoughts, thats for your time once again:


By now i noticed a few things that need to be changed, at least in my opinion.


- Population modifers:

As stated in my previous mail, they -need- to be adjusted to create a better gameplay. Along with that comes the following:

Population Mass: Currently one m people need 20 kT of space to be transported. Since a signle cargo bay offer 375 kT, a single transport with lets say 10 of them would offer 3750 kT, enough to carry approx. 180 million people.

I suggest to double the population mass,

Population Mass := 37


This way a single transport could carry ABOUT 90 million people, a single colonyship should be able to transport about 10% of the average transport, so 10 million people for a single colonizer is ok. This sounds good, its about 1,5% of the average homeworld.
With the adjusted rules for population transport come the pop modifers: Here they are, my suggestion, keep in mind a homeworld has 8000 m people, a new colony about 10 m. A colony which has received two pop loads could have about 200 million people, i think this is a good solution, you will find the modifers at the bottom of my mail.
In case you dont want to take a look at them: population of 1m gives 10% effiency, each m more increases effiency by 10%.

This means a colony with 5 million people will construct and produce with 50%, 10 m with 100%, since a new colony should have about 7-10 m people things should be alright (i need to adjust the size and cargo abiliy of the transport hull in order get it right)

Effect gradually increases, early on each 10 million more (20, 30 and so on) gives 2% more effiency, with steps increasing to 25 m, 50 m, 75 m, 100 m, even later 250 m, 500 m and so on.
A homeworld will construct and produce with 200% (8000m) or 240% (16000m), therefor we NEED to adjust the homeworld facilites, or else a homeworld will produce way to much research and construction rates. No problem though, i have -major- modding exp with se4, i know what i have to do
Full Ring and Sphereworlds will produce and construct with 450/900%, but well, to be honest i dont suspect anyone to get that far And if one achieves a 64000 m sphereworld, then he should get the 900%

Due to the low reproduction i dont suspect colonyworlds to get more population than ~ 500 million, at least not until lategame or immense reproduction charasterics.
A world with 500 million will produce and construct at about 130% (without spaceyard 2000/2000/2000 x 130%, about 2700 per ressource), just so you know.

Ok, now more:

The starting maintaince for ships and stuff is set to 25% in the settings.txt.
You may have noticed there are several components meant to classify a ship, i.e. civilian ship and military ship. Those classification components give both offense/defense advantages/disadvantages and huge maintaince reduction bonuses.
Unfortunally the bonues are too big, i.e. a civilian ship gives -60% maintaince.
Now the way SE4 works is quite strange, it always counts the totals.
So with a starting maintaince of 25% and a -60% boni from the civilian ship compnents, it would make a total maintaince of -35%. Now since the minimum maintaince is capped at 5%. You see the problem, instead of decreasing the maintaince by 60% -OF- 25% it directly subtracts...

Two options: Either increase the starting maintaince to maybe 80%. In that way, a civilian ship will get a maintaince of 20% (80-60). Other option would be to gradually change the maintaince reduction values of the classification-components, so a civilian ship will decrease maintaince by "only" 15%, so in total the maintaince would be 10% (25-15%).
The problem would be that players could design their race with huge maintaince bonus (race characteristics), because they are subtracted directly, too.
I suggest the former, increasing the starting maintaince to something between 75-85%, that way everything would be okay (at least thats my thought).


Another thing i found is this:

Defending Units Per Population := 200
Population Defender Attack Strength := 200
Population Defender Hit Points := 100



These values show, that ONE milita will appear for each 200 m people in groundcombat. Since most planets will never get hundreds of millions of people, there will never be militas at all. I would like to decrease the values, so a ground combat will offer more reality. The attacker should have to fight MANY militas, as population wants to resist invasions. Good values would be something like 4/2/1.
This would create one milita for each 4 m population (-> each forth civilian would resist and fight), they would be half as strong as the normal infantery unit and have no attack or defense boni.


All the things i mentioned are in work by me, you see im really addicted to b5 and se4





Now there are a few things i need to know from you, hopefully you played the mod and know what im talking about:

I think about changing the propulsion, so engines offer less engine power, in fact slowing down ships by maybe 25%. What do you think about this, i think ships are to fast...?! Do you agree ?
Secondly the armor system. To be honest i think the armorsystem is not that good. I "think" i get the point in using different classes of armors, but i think we should change the system, make it "more" basic, with only 2 kinds of armors...?!
Maybe i overlooked something, could you explain the entire idea behind the massive armor idea ?


Ok, took me quite a while to type all this (was watching Troja at the same time), now thats almost all from me.
Just one more question though: You may have noticed i like to fiddle with components and stuff like that, but i dont really like doing the same with facilites. Could you by any means begin to "redo" the facilites, or at least think about HOW exactly we should redo the faciliy system ? Redoing it entirely, only changing the costs ? I dont know...i just can tell you that most planets will be able to construct with 2000/2000/2000, without spaceyards. I suppose most basic buildings, like research generators and mining generators should be able to be constructed within 1-3 turns (better 1-2 though).


Thats it, im looking forward to your answer !

p.s. Sorry for grammar and typos, im doing my best, but sometimes i just dont get the right words for what i want to tell you.






Number Of Population Modifiers := 64
Pop Modifier 1 Population Amount := 1
Pop Modifier 1 Production Modifier Percent := 10
Pop Modifier 1 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 10

Pop Modifier 2 Population Amount := 2
Pop Modifier 2 Production Modifier Percent := 20
Pop Modifier 2 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 20

Pop Modifier 3 Population Amount := 3
Pop Modifier 3 Production Modifier Percent := 30
Pop Modifier 3 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 30

Pop Modifier 4 Population Amount := 4
Pop Modifier 4 Production Modifier Percent := 40
Pop Modifier 4 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 40

Pop Modifier 5 Population Amount := 5
Pop Modifier 5 Production Modifier Percent := 50
Pop Modifier 5 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 50

Pop Modifier 6 Population Amount := 6
Pop Modifier 6 Production Modifier Percent := 60
Pop Modifier 6 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 60

Pop Modifier 7 Population Amount := 7
Pop Modifier 7 Production Modifier Percent := 70
Pop Modifier 7 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 70

Pop Modifier 8 Population Amount := 8
Pop Modifier 8 Production Modifier Percent := 80
Pop Modifier 8 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 80

Pop Modifier 9 Population Amount := 9
Pop Modifier 9 Production Modifier Percent := 90
Pop Modifier 9 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 90

Pop Modifier 10 Population Amount := 10
Pop Modifier 10 Production Modifier Percent := 100
Pop Modifier 10 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 100

Pop Modifier 11 Population Amount := 20
Pop Modifier 11 Production Modifier Percent := 102
Pop Modifier 11 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 102

Pop Modifier 12 Population Amount := 30
Pop Modifier 12 Production Modifier Percent := 104
Pop Modifier 12 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 104

Pop Modifier 13 Population Amount := 40
Pop Modifier 13 Production Modifier Percent := 106
Pop Modifier 13 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 106

Pop Modifier 14 Population Amount := 50
Pop Modifier 14 Production Modifier Percent := 108
Pop Modifier 14 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 108

Pop Modifier 15 Population Amount := 75
Pop Modifier 15 Production Modifier Percent := 110
Pop Modifier 15 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 110

Pop Modifier 16 Population Amount := 100
Pop Modifier 16 Production Modifier Percent := 112
Pop Modifier 16 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 112

Pop Modifier 17 Population Amount := 125
Pop Modifier 17 Production Modifier Percent := 114
Pop Modifier 17 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 114

Pop Modifier 18 Population Amount := 150
Pop Modifier 18 Production Modifier Percent := 116
Pop Modifier 18 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 116

Pop Modifier 19 Population Amount := 175
Pop Modifier 19 Production Modifier Percent := 118
Pop Modifier 19 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 118

Pop Modifier 20 Population Amount := 200
Pop Modifier 20 Production Modifier Percent := 120
Pop Modifier 20 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 120

Pop Modifier 21 Population Amount := 250
Pop Modifier 21 Production Modifier Percent := 122
Pop Modifier 21 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 122

Pop Modifier 22 Population Amount := 300
Pop Modifier 22 Production Modifier Percent := 124
Pop Modifier 22 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 124

Pop Modifier 23 Population Amount := 350
Pop Modifier 23 Production Modifier Percent := 126
Pop Modifier 23 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 126

Pop Modifier 24 Population Amount := 400
Pop Modifier 24 Production Modifier Percent := 128
Pop Modifier 24 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 128

Pop Modifier 25 Population Amount := 450
Pop Modifier 25 Production Modifier Percent := 130
Pop Modifier 25 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 130

Pop Modifier 26 Population Amount := 500
Pop Modifier 26 Production Modifier Percent := 132
Pop Modifier 26 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 132

Pop Modifier 27 Population Amount := 600
Pop Modifier 27 Production Modifier Percent := 134
Pop Modifier 27 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 134

Pop Modifier 28 Population Amount := 700
Pop Modifier 28 Production Modifier Percent := 136
Pop Modifier 28 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 136

Pop Modifier 29 Population Amount := 800
Pop Modifier 29 Production Modifier Percent := 138
Pop Modifier 29 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 138

Pop Modifier 30 Population Amount := 900
Pop Modifier 30 Production Modifier Percent := 140
Pop Modifier 30 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 140

Pop Modifier 31 Population Amount := 1000
Pop Modifier 31 Production Modifier Percent := 142
Pop Modifier 31 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 142

Pop Modifier 32 Population Amount := 1250
Pop Modifier 32 Production Modifier Percent := 144
Pop Modifier 32 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 144

Pop Modifier 33 Population Amount := 1500
Pop Modifier 33 Production Modifier Percent := 146
Pop Modifier 33 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 146

Pop Modifier 34 Population Amount := 1600
Pop Modifier 34 Production Modifier Percent := 148
Pop Modifier 34 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 148

Pop Modifier 35 Population Amount := 1700
Pop Modifier 35 Production Modifier Percent := 150
Pop Modifier 35 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 150

Pop Modifier 36 Population Amount := 1800
Pop Modifier 36 Production Modifier Percent := 152
Pop Modifier 36 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 152

Pop Modifier 37 Population Amount := 1900
Pop Modifier 37 Production Modifier Percent := 154
Pop Modifier 37 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 154

Pop Modifier 38 Population Amount := 2000
Pop Modifier 38 Production Modifier Percent := 156
Pop Modifier 38 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 156

Pop Modifier 39 Population Amount := 2250
Pop Modifier 39 Production Modifier Percent := 158
Pop Modifier 39 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 158

Pop Modifier 40 Population Amount := 2500
Pop Modifier 40 Production Modifier Percent := 160
Pop Modifier 40 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 160

Pop Modifier 41 Population Amount := 2750
Pop Modifier 41 Production Modifier Percent := 162
Pop Modifier 41 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 162

Pop Modifier 42 Population Amount := 3000
Pop Modifier 42 Production Modifier Percent := 164
Pop Modifier 42 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 164

Pop Modifier 43 Population Amount := 3250
Pop Modifier 43 Production Modifier Percent := 166
Pop Modifier 43 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 166

Pop Modifier 44 Population Amount := 3500
Pop Modifier 44 Production Modifier Percent := 168
Pop Modifier 44 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 168

Pop Modifier 45 Population Amount := 3750
Pop Modifier 45 Production Modifier Percent := 170
Pop Modifier 45 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 170

Pop Modifier 46 Population Amount := 4000
Pop Modifier 46 Production Modifier Percent := 172
Pop Modifier 46 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 172

Pop Modifier 47 Population Amount := 4500
Pop Modifier 47 Production Modifier Percent := 174
Pop Modifier 47 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 174

Pop Modifier 48 Population Amount := 5000
Pop Modifier 48 Production Modifier Percent := 176
Pop Modifier 48 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 176

Pop Modifier 49 Population Amount := 5500
Pop Modifier 49 Production Modifier Percent := 178
Pop Modifier 49 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 178

Pop Modifier 50 Population Amount := 6000
Pop Modifier 50 Production Modifier Percent := 178
Pop Modifier 50 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 178

Pop Modifier 51 Population Amount := 6500
Pop Modifier 51 Production Modifier Percent := 180
Pop Modifier 51 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 180

Pop Modifier 52 Population Amount := 7000
Pop Modifier 52 Production Modifier Percent := 182
Pop Modifier 52 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 182

Pop Modifier 53 Population Amount := 7500
Pop Modifier 53 Production Modifier Percent := 184
Pop Modifier 53 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 184

Pop Modifier 54 Population Amount := 8000
Pop Modifier 54 Production Modifier Percent := 200
Pop Modifier 54 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 200

Pop Modifier 55 Population Amount := 9000
Pop Modifier 55 Production Modifier Percent := 210
Pop Modifier 55 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 210

Pop Modifier 56 Population Amount := 10000
Pop Modifier 56 Production Modifier Percent := 220
Pop Modifier 56 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 220

Pop Modifier 57 Population Amount := 11000
Pop Modifier 57 Production Modifier Percent := 230
Pop Modifier 57 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 230

Pop Modifier 58 Population Amount := 12000
Pop Modifier 58 Production Modifier Percent := 240
Pop Modifier 58 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 240

Pop Modifier 59 Population Amount := 13000
Pop Modifier 59 Production Modifier Percent := 250
Pop Modifier 59 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 250

Pop Modifier 60 Population Amount := 14000
Pop Modifier 60 Production Modifier Percent := 260
Pop Modifier 60 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 260

Pop Modifier 61 Population Amount := 15000
Pop Modifier 61 Production Modifier Percent := 270
Pop Modifier 61 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 270

Pop Modifier 62 Population Amount := 16000
Pop Modifier 62 Production Modifier Percent := 280
Pop Modifier 62 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 280

Pop Modifier 63 Population Amount := 32000
Pop Modifier 63 Production Modifier Percent := 450
Pop Modifier 63 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 450

Pop Modifier 64 Population Amount := 64000
Pop Modifier 64 Production Modifier Percent := 900
Pop Modifier 64 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 900

[Suicide Junkie]

So with a starting maintaince of 25% and a -60% boni from the civilian ship compnents, it would make a total maintaince of -35%. Now since the minimum maintaince is capped at 5%. You see the problem, instead of decreasing the maintaince by 60% -OF- 25% it directly subtracts...

The racial modifiers add with the base.

The component/hull ability modifiers start at 100% and add with each other.

Lastly, the two Groups are multiplied together to get the final result.

-----

Stock EG:
25% base rate, -10% maintenance reduction, -5% merchants culture
= 10%

100% starting amount. -50% for base hull ability.
= 50%

Total Maintenance paid:
10%x50%
=5%

-----

The attacker should have to fight MANY militas, as population wants to resist invasions. Good values would be something like 4/2/1

How about 1/1/30? Or even 1/0/100?
Then the militia can hole up and hold off the enemy for a while, but not be much of a direct threat to the invaders unless the defender can get some real troops in there.

In the second case, the militia wouldn't be able to do actual damage to the invaders, but would prevent them from securing the territory. The defender then needs to arrive with a liberation force before the population's will is broken.