Vanheim themes?

[Heironeous]

I'm finally getting around to trying out Vanheim in MP, and I was wondering what other players thought about the three themes available (default, Helheim and Midgard).

I like to focus on construction, so both Midgard (flexibility) and Helheim (access to death, Hangadrott) caught my eye. However, those EEE? dwarves seem pretty good too. Decisions, decisions...

Any advice/info on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

If you're a Constructionist, go with either default (strong focus on Earth, thus can also use Construction to raise armies of Mechanical Men or big constructs), or Midgard (awesome versatility, you can eventually forge everything without having to spend much on your pretender's magic paths). Helheim is cool too, but is best suited to players who favor Conjuration or Enchantment.

[Heironeous]

Nagot Gick Fel said:
Helheim is cool too, but is best suited to players who favor Conjuration or Enchantment.

Thanks for the response.

The one thing that worries me about base is access to life drain weapons. For base, relying on randoms (EEEB, EEED dwarves) is a definite crapshoot. I guess you could bloodhunt with Vanjarls, but that seems like such a waste. Midgard's AA?? mages (damn, they rock!) make this much less of a gamble, and Helheim has it easy (DD Svartalf -> Wraith Sword).

[Boron]

Heironeous said:

Thanks for the response.

The one thing that worries me about base is access to life drain weapons. For base, relying on randoms (EEEB, EEED dwarves) is a definite crapshoot. I guess you could bloodhunt with Vanjarls, but that seems like such a waste. Midgard's AA?? mages (damn, they rock!) make this much less of a gamble, and Helheim has it easy (DD Svartalf -> Wraith Sword).

Your AA?? mages have only 1/64 chance to get D2 so it is a lot gambling .
Vanheim is really a hard decision because all 3 themes are good .
Base Vanheim has the gorgeous dwarfen smiths you mentioned + starting earth income . They could forge you dwarfen hammers , boots of earth , cast Petrify/weapons of sharpness etc.
Mitgards Galderman + V�lvas are very nice too . Furthermore your skinshifters cost 5 gold less here .
They are impressive , like healing barbarians with good morale
Helheim i personally don't like but it is surely very good too because of the access to deathmagic .

[Boron]

Hm as a constructionnation i think Vanheim is good but not the best nation .
You should have imo :
-Astral 1 at least for luck pendant , amulet of antimagic , higher astral is always good though : starshine skullcap , ring of sorcery/wizardy etc.
-Earth 3 at least for dwarfen hammers , Earth boots , Earth weapons like gatecleaver
-Death 2 for wraithsword or Blood 3 for Hellsword/Bloodthorn
-Water 2 for boots of quickness + clamhoard
-Air 3 for flying boots + staff of storms

Nature + fire are the only 2 magic paths which are almost unimportant for forging expect for fiever fetishes and fire resistence items imo .


In 2.13 i guess hellsword becomes more attractive as lifedrainweapon than wraithsword because it gives +50% fire resistence as the burning pearl now gives . So 100% fire resistence + 4 att from burning pearl + more Att/Str/Prot when gone berserk .

[archaeolept]

hellheim irritates me because there's just no synergy (other than "blight") between earth and death, so the svartalfs just don't interest me. The vanadrotts make amazing little mini-SC's though.

w/ base, i'd blood hunt and empower in order to forge. you might always get lucky w/ a random w/ one of those 380 gp Vans, but that's a bit much to count on.

[Boron]

archaeolept said:
hellheim irritates me because there's just no synergy (other than "blight") between earth and death, so the svartalfs just don't interest me. The vanadrotts make amazing little mini-SC's though.

Exactly my feeling with helheim too . EEDD swartalfs instead of EEE* dwarfen smiths i see as a real loss .
The Hangadrotts maybe good Mini-SC's / Thugs but hey they cost 400 gold .
If i want SC national leaders i rather play Jotunheim Niefelheim they cost more but only 100 and need perhaps more equipment but they are another class of SC than Hangadrotts .
The forced Death 1-scale irritates me with vanheim too because they are one of the nations with quite useful national troops where a small positive growthscale of growth 1 or similiar is not bad ( i often play with death 3 scale as most nations ) .

[Heironeous]

Boron said:
Your AA?? mages have only 1/64 chance to get D2 so it is a lot gambling.

Ah, but I only need a D1 galderman. My pretender (D4) doesn't mind forging the first skull staff, and then that galderman can focus on building the various D2 items (wraith sword, skull staff, etc).

If I get some random B's instead of D, then I would definitely go the empower route: hunt -> sanguine rods -> hunt -> empower Vanjarl. That opens up both hellswords and storm demons, which isn't too shabby... it's just a lot more work than the death route.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Heironeous said:
If I get some random B's instead of D, then I would definitely go the empower route: hunt -> sanguine rods -> hunt -> empower Vanjarl. That opens up both hellswords and storm demons, which isn't too shabby... it's just a lot more work than the death route.

If you're lucky enough to get a Galderman with randoms in earth and blood, you'd better empower that one than a Vanjarl. Gives you the same plus Blood Stones (a rare and very useful item) - and Demon Knight as an alternative to Storm Demons.

[Graeme Dice]

Boron said:
Your AA?? mages have only 1/64 chance to get D2 so it is a lot gambling .

Actually, they have a 0/64 chance to get D2, since one random pick is elemental and one is sorcery.