Stealthy Gandalf

[Saxon]

Gandalf,

Did you ever do a strategy guide for stealth? I searched, but had little luck beyond a tip or two, here and there.

It has been two weeks of relatives and wildebeest, so while real life has been good, I have missed Dominions. I am now back to work and normal free time and I was thinking of trying something new, but must admit a failure of imagination with stealth. Perhaps it was the wildebeest migration, that was incredible and was beyond my imagination.

Thanks!

[Gandalf Parker]

Hmmm no not really. But if anyone wants to start one I could definetly put in alot of points.

Lets see... Ive made good use of stealthy pretenders, stealthy priests, mage/assassins, low-dominion and cheap castles, chicken-pox pattern of province conquest instead of chained provinces or amoeba spread as other nations do, harrassment tactics, great advantages in being an ally since it un-does many of the "wish there was more diplomacy options" complaints. Gee I guess there is enough to make an interesting strategy guide.

Now I just have to consider if I really want to ever meet "myself" in a game.

[Vicious Love]

Simple enough question, how many patrollers/how much province defense would one need to have a reasonable chance of detecting a small(Say, 40 units) force of stealthy(+0) troops in the one month they spend in a border province? Ditto for an equally sized force of stealthy(+25) sidhe, or a single tuatha SC.
I'm about to play my first real multiplayer game, and I'm worried about either going overboard with my patrollers, or letting a handful of mini-SCs devastate my hinterlands. If I Last long enough to have hinterlands.

Update: Does anyone actually use Bane Venom Charms, incidentally? I mean, it ocurred to me that a few Vanadrotts with Implementor Axes could wreak havoc with my economy, but I suppose a few scouts with BVCs could accomplish nearly as much, cheaper, without ever going into combat.

[ July 26, 2004, 02:29: Message edited by: Vicious Love ]

[Arryn]

Excellent questions, Love. I anxiously await the answer(s) myself. BTW, in my experience, PD doesn't seem to have much effect on finding stealthy folk. I routinely maintain PDs of 20 in most provinces and I rarely snag hidden units. If PD does have an effect, it must be small and I, too, would like to know what the formula is / chances are.

20+ PD will detect Stealth +0 probably 75% of the time. 10+ PD I would say has a 50% chance.

For Stealth +25 (or more), you have virtually no chance to find them with common PD and will have to revert to using Patrollers and quite a few, to boot.

Bane Venom Charms are excellent for causing havok and psychologically. This is one great advantage that Spy Nations (Marignon, Ulm, etc) can use, by chainusing High end stealth units to drive huge amounts of death and panic on a nation.

[Saxon]

Hmm, it sounds like this is an area that is underutilized, under documented and underplayed. I guess I can go out and explore this world! It should be fun, most of the time when I try out something new, it is well known on the Boards and I feel like I am just trying someone else’s ideas. Now I can feel like I am exploring things for myself.

Gandalf, I suspect your unwillingness to share these state secrets is a role-playing extension of your stealthy forces. Hmm, who would have guessed the secrets behind that beard…

Zen, those percentages seem far too high. I have moved stealthy troops around before, against PD, and suffered few discoveries. I will now see what I can find out in this area.

[Gandalf Parker]

You are right. It is one of the underplayed parts of the game in my opinion. Most of the suggestions I see for Pangaea/Man/Vanheim tend to be efforts at playing them as Ulm which is of course bound to go badly.

Actually I tried to write up a strat guide because of this thread. Its just not my style to sit and put it all down. We could discuss the different aspects, then someone here can compile it into logical reading.

What do you want first?
A) pretenders
B) nation choice
C) dominion, scales, and castles
D) mage/assassins
E) priests
F) province patterns
G) armys and attacking
H) harrassment tactics
I) ally and diplomacy benefits
J) creative equipment use

[Boron]

Originally posted by Zen:

Bane Venom Charms are excellent for causing havok and psychologically. This is one great advantage that Spy Nations (Marignon, Ulm, etc) can use, by chainusing High end stealth units to drive huge amounts of death and panic on a nation.

in your miqr stands : provincial disease .
2 questions :
1. do 2 bane venom charms stack up and kill population twice as fast ?
2. is it only provincial disease or does it work like a harvester of sorrows and diseases both troops + population ?
who kills population quicker ?
-a harvester of sorrows
-a stealthy scout/spy e.g. with 1 bane venom charm
-a scout with 2 bane venom charms

problem though is that the harvester has only stealth 0 .
on the other hand it is flying so good strat movement + when you have a border with your enemy he can devastate the border areas almost without risk : if he is discovered he has always first move right ?
scripted to retreat he will always retreat than in your province right ?

Edit : is it enough to have a castle in a neighbor province or do you need to fully control the province ?
if i have 1 neighbor province but are besieged there and my harvester is ddiscovered and retreats does he retreat to the castle , or retreat to the province and sneak around there or does he have nowhere to retreat ?

[ July 27, 2004, 15:20: Message edited by: Boron ]

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Boron:
Edit : is it enough to have a castle in a neighbor province or do you need to fully control the province ?

You need to control the province at the time that retreats are figured out, which is after battles near the end of the turn. A spell like ghost riders, which gives the province to independents until the beginning of the next turn, can prevent him from retreating successfully.

if i have 1 neighbor province but are besieged there and my harvester is ddiscovered and retreats does he retreat to the castle , or retreat to the province and sneak around there or does he have nowhere to retreat ?

All units can only retreat to neighbouring friendly provinces. Flying and stealth don't matter in this at all.

[PvK]

Originally posted by Boron:
... if he is discovered he has always first move right ?
scripted to retreat he will always retreat than in your province right ?

Edit : is it enough to have a castle in a neighbor province or do you need to fully control the province ?
if i have 1 neighbor province but are besieged there and my harvester is ddiscovered and retreats does he retreat to the castle , or retreat to the province and sneak around there or does he have nowhere to retreat ?

He will have nowhere to retreat, and be eliminated.

He also will not get the first tactical move when discovered. Sneaking units which are discovered are treated as attacking the province, so the defenders get the first move. If your enemy has something that can get to you on the first turn, then you have to survive that.

A Harvester of Sorrows though is a pretty tough cookie and can often wipe out or scare away patrollers by himself...

PvK