Mixed unit morale

[Cheezeninja]

How is morale effected in a unit when different individuals in the unit have vastly different morale?

Case in point, i had a large army of mixed vampires and imps attacking a province in my own dominion, Every single unit was lumped into 1 group with orders to attack immediately. (i figured every unit was either immortal or expendable). During the course of the battle i noticed the imps took heavy casualties but never ran away... So how exactly does the game compute the morale of a unit when its members have vastly different morales? Is it just the morale of the most common unit type? Is it some form of average? which would be wierd due to the strange morale numbers that have additional meanings (30,50)

[Boron]

i would guess it is some form of average .

the manual is not too helpful there but a small hint is in the description at page 17 :
when the average morale loss is greater than the number of units in the squad , the squad may rout .

so a very big squad helps . i dunno exactly where are borders but when i have e.g. 100 principles in 1 squad they don't start routing before there are only 20 - 25 or so left in my expierience .

an interesting test would be a horde of 200 imps or 200 barbarians or other very low morale units . but i guess until there are only less then 50 left they will never rout .

[Boron]

if you have a patient enough friend you could try it :
battle 1 : attack with 200 imps
battle 2 : attack with 100 imps + 100 vampires

if the 200 imps routed when they were mowed down to e.g. 100
but the 100 imps + 100 vampires didn't rout until only 50 or 40 were left than this would strongly speak for an averaged morale .

but vampires have only a 1 higher morale : 10 compared to the imps 9 so they aren't good for the test . and only immortal commanders never retreat or ?
so the test would be much better with devils and imps because devils have 30 morale so an averaged morale should be at ~ 20 for devils and imps in equal proportions .

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Experience suggest it's a weighted average.

Say you have N units with morale X, O units with morale Y and P units with morale Z, all in the same sqad, the morale of the squad will be

(NX + OY + PZ) / (N + O + P)

[Cheezeninja]

It seems like it must be more complicated than a simple weighted average though, because certain morale numbers mean certain things. In the .pdf on modding it states:
"Giving a monster 50 in morale makes it mindless and prone to dissolvement due to lack of proper leadership. Undeads with mind but nothing to lose usually have 30 in morale."
Maybe im taking too much from that, but it seems that having a morale of 50 actually causes changes beyond being more brave. Hmmm... im going to try mixing some living statues in with imps and see what happens.

[Norfleet]

I don't think there's any actual weighting: The morale of the squad is simply the average morale of the squad, with the exclusion of "special" morale (30,50,99) units, which are resolved seperately. Part of the reason your vampire/imp squad didn't rout is because a large 200-man squad must sustain a comparably larger amount of pain and suffering before a morale check is performed, whereas a smaller squad is checked with fewer losses. The cruddy morale of the imps is only slightly bolstered by the nearly as cruddy morale of the vampires.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Cheezeninja:
It seems like it must be more complicated than a simple weighted average though, because certain morale numbers mean certain things.

True. I should have written 'Experience suggests that for units with morale Ratings of 30 and below...'.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I don't think there's any actual weighting: The morale of the squad is simply the average morale of the squad, with the exclusion of "special" morale (30,50,99) units, which are resolved seperately.

But what kind of average morale? If as you suggest it isn't weighted, a squad of 24 militia and 1 Emerald Guard should have the same average morale as a squad of 1 militia and 24 Emerald Guards, obviously this isn't the case.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
But what kind of average morale? If as you suggest it isn't weighted, a squad of 24 militia and 1 Emerald Guard should have the same average morale as a squad of 1 militia and 24 Emerald Guards, obviously this isn't the case.

That's...not quite the definition of average I'm used to seeing. You're arguing that the unweighted average income of 35 CEOs and a starving beggar is the same as the average income of 35 starving beggars and one CEO. Obviously, that's not the case!

[Sindai]

NGF seems to be calling "weighted average" what most people would simply call an "average." Maybe I don't have the terms technically straight, but a weighted average would seem to imply some factors beyond simply the values and quantity of numbers involved, since those are already included in an average.