Communion Master and Slave

[Maltrease]

What exactly happens if a unit cast both communion slave and communion master?

For example if you have 8 Units, each cast both. Should all 8 units now have 3 levels higher magic?

[Duncanish]

That's it indeed. A communion/sabbath can, theoretically have unlimited masters and slaves. They'll all share fatigue and caster-only buffs. But it's not really worth having several Masters.

[Slygar]

this is something i've always wanted to know for sure. Can a mage be a slave and a master at the same time?

[Maltrease]

My test didn't lead to any definite conclusion. It would be great if you could see the upgrade magic paths by looking at the unit.

I had 4 theurgs each cast slave followed by master and then scripted for 4 smites. It didn't work... although they were casting divine blessing and fanatism. There were valid smite targets within range.

I then tried 8 theurgs with the same script. In this case only 1 theurg cast smite... the others didn't do anyting. It was like they just skipped their turns.

I haven't tried scripting them for other spells yet. Maybe that would offer a clue?

[Norfleet]

The better, more conclusive test, would be to simply do the following:

Take two Theurgs, script the first to do "Master, Slave, Astral Shield, Hold, Hold, Spells". Script the second to do "Master, Slave, Astral Weapon, Hold, Hold, Spells". If both of them end up with astral weapon and astral shield, it means a unit CAN simultaneously be a master and a slave.

Obviously, a unit can't commune with itself, so having 4 Theurgs would mean that each Theurg had, at best, 3 slaves, for a total of only +1 paths. Not enough for smite. If you had 5 Theurgs, that would have been more conclusive.

[Yossar]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
The better, more conclusive test, would be to simply do the following:

Take two Theurgs, script the first to do "Master, Slave, Astral Shield, Hold, Hold, Spells". Script the second to do "Master, Slave, Astral Weapon, Hold, Hold, Spells". If both of them end up with astral weapon and astral shield, it means a unit CAN simultaneously be a master and a slave.

Tried it with 2 lizardman shamen. All spells should cost 24 fatigue, including encumbrance.

Round 1: Both cast slave. Each has 24 fatigue.
Round 2: Both cast master. Each has 48 fatigue.
Round 3: One casts Astral Shield and one does nothing. Both have 72 fatigue. Both are shielded. Only one casting has taken place, but both get the fatigue as if they had cast the spell and one shaman didn't do anything.
Round 4: Similar to 3. One casts Astral Weapon, one does nothing, and both end up at 96 fatigue.

So based on this test slave and master work together, but they work... oddly.

[Gateway103]

I did some testings with hotseat Pythiums & Caelum (dummy target), and here are my findings:

1) You can be both Master and Slave at the same time, not very useful though, see (3).

2) Only Slaves aside from the caster count toward level boosting, regardless if the Caster is a Slave

3) When a Master casts a spell, the associated Slaves, if not moved/casted yet, will count as having their turn skipped, and their script postponed.

I drew my conclusions based on the tests below. There can be other interpretations, so take a grain of salt with this theory.

Although if the theory is correct, then mage doubling as both Slave and Master is not really a good idea unless you have specific strategy in mind.

However, I have seen the AI do such things regularly... Just a while ago, 5 indept mages with ~15 blood slaves were casting Sabbath Master and Slaves on each and everyone of them, and then finally summon Imps. But due to the Slave skipping turn behaviour, they can only cast one Summon each turn, while my army quickly approached and scored an easy victory (as oppose to fighting through multiple Summons of Imps per turn)

My actual testing setups and key results (redone at least twice for each trial to ensure accuracy), the key results are Test 4 & 5:

I have 2 Arch Theurgs and 2 Theurg Acolytes. The 2 Acolytes cast spell first (they appear higher on commander list).

I script them as follows:

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Test 1
Acolyte A: Slave, Master, Astral Shield, Hold, Hold, Cast
Acolyte B: Slave, Master, Astral Weapon, Hold, Hold, Cast
(As described by Norfleet)

Same result as Yossar. Astral Shield is first because Acolyte A is higher on list. If switched to have Acolyte A cast Astral Weapon, then Astral Weapon casted first

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Test 2
Acolyte A: Slave, Master, Solar Ray, Hold, Hold, Cast
Acolyte B: Slave, Astral Weapon, Hold, Hold, Cast

Turn one: Slaves
Turn two: Master is casted, and Astral Weapon
Turn three: Astral Shield is casted by Acolyte A. Repeated many trials, same results

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Test 3
Acolyte A: Slave, Master, Solar Ray, Hold, Hold, Cast
Acolyte B: Slave, Astral Weapon, Hold, Hold, Cast
Arch Theurg A: Slave, Astral Shield, Hold, Hold, Hold, Cast

Turn one: Slaves
Turn two: Master is casted, and Astral Weapon & Shields
Turn three: Solar Ray or other spell is casted by Acolyte A (I changed the position so both armies start as close as possible)
This does not always work, as sometimes Acolyte A refuse to cast Solar Ray, but cast say Blessing instead, despite the enemy (A commander with 5 bodyguards) were in range.

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Test 4
Acolyte A & B: Slave, Astral Shield, Hold, Hold, Hold, Cast
Arch Theurg A & B: Master, Tunder Strike, Hold, Hold, Hold, Caste

Turn one: spent on Slave and Master casting
Turn two: the two Acolyte casted Astral Shield on themselves, follow by 2 Thunder Strikes by the Arch Theurg

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Test 5
Acolyte A: Slave, Astral Shield, Hold, Hold, Hold, Cast
Acolyte B: Master, Solar Ray, Hold, Hold, Hold, Cast
Arch Theurg A: Slave, Astral Weapon, Hold, Hold, Hold, Cast
Arch Theurg B: Master, Thunder Strike, Hold, HOld, Hold, Cast

Turn one: spent on Slave and Master casting
Turn two: Acolyte A casted Astral Shield on himself, then Acolyte B casted Solar Ray, follow by Arch Theurg B casting Thunder Strike.
Turn three: Arch Theurg casted Astral Weapon

-Gateway103

[Maltrease]

Thanks gateway that makes sense. It is interesting that it will skip the persons turn... but only if they haven't taken it yet.

If you have 4 slaves and one master, the slaves can still cast spells for the turn if the master hasn't taken his yet. Seems oddly random.

Well... so much for the 10 Smites per round (5 quicked theurgs) on turn 6. Probably for the best