Moloch disappearing act?

JaydedOne · #1 March 28th, 2004, 04:33 PM

I was playing a Moloch pretender with Vanheim and ended up running into a problem that I can't figure out. Perhaps someone here can give me an idea of what was happening.

Twice (on different maps/games) I ended up sending him off on battles against Woodsman Druids and Woodsman Blowpipes (with the occasional Dark Vines.) Both times he cast two basic spell-ups (Twist Fate and Astral Shield) and then jumped on into combat against the rearmost (the Druids). Both times he took no damage as the enemy routed and my troops advanced to finish them off. Both times he was polishing off someone in the rear, still having taken no damage alongside his Valkyrie bodyguard crew, when suddenly he just disappears from the replay, moments before combat ends.

And then he's gone. Nowhere on my map. Dead, even. But why? He's not getting poisoned. There's no banishment happening... Anyone have an idea of why this might be happening to me? It's certainly discouraged me from playing the Moloch as I've never seen this occurence anywhere else, but it seems silly to me to think that it'd be unique to him. Ideas?

[ March 28, 2004, 14:33: Message edited by: Miguel Duran ]

Peter Ebbesen · #2 March 28th, 2004, 04:44 PM

Read the link in my .sig on Rescuing the Moloch From Whimpy Imps Inc.

It sounds as if you are suffering a variant of this. Your Valkyrie bodyguard broke morale, so all fled (they flee immediately out of the map as they can fly), so your Moloch flees as well, and since you were probably attacking a province deep in neutral territory by flying, you have no neighbouring province to retreat to, and all are eliminated.

If this is not the case, something weird is going on.

JaydedOne · #3 March 28th, 2004, 05:13 PM

*nod* I familiarized myself with your thread and that was why I gave him the Valkyrie guard. However, while they may have broken (I can't recall), he doesn't appear to be fleeing and, even if he were, I've never been in the situation where I didn't have a friendly province to move back to (as I was supporting him with ground troops) and I've never gotten the "Died while retreating into enemy territory" message.

I -do- however get the strange death sound that comes when a unit keels over right when he disappears and I -don't- find him in any neighboring provinces. He's dead, Jim.

But why?

Nagot Gick Fel · #4 March 28th, 2004, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen:
If this is not the case, something weird is going on.

...or more likely the Moloch was just bleeding to death and he didn't notice. Happens often when fighting Bloodhenge Druids or other blood mages.

archaeolept · #5 March 28th, 2004, 05:40 PM

yah, i had my 23 MR son of niefel die because he was hit by the Blood 0 "bleed" spell.

check your replay...

JaydedOne · #6 March 28th, 2004, 07:39 PM

I'm guessing it was Bleed, as he got clobbered with that a few times in both sessions.

But I didn't see any damage taking place over the course of its use. Maybe a hp or two, but I didn't think he was in any danger of dying until he just kacked at the end.

I'll have to check the threads on Bleed and see what's going on there. At first glance, it looks awfully powerful.

Peter Ebbesen · #7 March 28th, 2004, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:
Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen:
If this is not the case, something weird is going on.

...or more likely the Moloch was just bleeding to death and he didn't notice. Happens often when fighting Bloodhenge Druids or other blood mages.

I guess you are right that this is what happened as, upon rereading the first post, it seems the Moloch disappeared before the Valkyries, but it takes quite a number of rounds to bleed to death in my experience, longer than fights vs independents usually Last - or have I just been lucky until now?

Nagot Gick Fel · #8 March 28th, 2004, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen:
...it takes quite a number of rounds to bleed to death in my experience, longer than fights vs independents usually Last - or have I just been lucky until now?

No, you're right. But if there are any poisoned, decaying or bleeding units on the winning side when the enemy has been defeated, there's an additional phase to allow these effects to deal their full damage. But time flows at an accelerated rate then and often people have the impression that their units pops out of existence for no reason. I was able to interrupt that phase on one occasion to watch a decaying Shedu lose hitpoints and collect afflictions before vanishing.

Alexander Seil · #9 March 29th, 2004, 05:40 AM

The question is whether it is really a viable possibility for a demon (or a Shedu) to bleed to death. These are not "living" units, being products of magical energies beyond the mortal plane (although it is not so clear in Shedu's case).

Graeme Dice · #10 March 29th, 2004, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexander Seil:
The question is whether it is really a viable possibility for a demon (or a Shedu) to bleed to death. These are not "living" units, being products of magical energies beyond the mortal plane (although it is not so clear in Shedu's case).

If they weren't living units, then they would have the lifeless tag. They do have blood, as the heart of life works just fine in them.