Air 9 bless: useless?

[Sandman]

Maybe I'm missing something, but 75% shock resistance seems awfully weak compared to flaming weapons, quickness, regeneration or even twist fate. I suppose it might be useful if you're making heavy use of lightning spells, but even then, you're still going to hurt your own units a bit, and it's obviously limited by the research needed, whereas the other level 9 bless effects are useful immediately.
Additionally, there's no really cheap option for getting air 9 either, like the oracle or statue for astral 9.
To cap it all, there aren't even any spells which require air 9; the highest requirement for an air spell is 7 for fata morgana.

The standard air shield effect is decent enough, but it's hardly strong enough to justify such a weak level 9 blessing, is it?

How could the air 9 blessing be improved? There are lots of potential options; a precision bonus, storm immunity, mirror image etc. Mistform or flight would be a bit much, I think.

Personally, I'd go for total immunity to lightning and a free cast of charge body. This is not dreadfully overpowered, but it's useful from the start, and it's different from the other bless effects. Mirror image would be too similar to twist fate, and the Van and Tuatha have glamour already.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Air 9 blessing makes for a truly AWESOME combination used together with Wrathful skies - and is the best protection against an enemy using that spell if you have many sacred troops.

Additionally, it is a very, very, nice combination if you are fighting air-heavy nations like Caelum or Vanaheim.

It may not be as useful in as many situations as the fire and water blessings, but that certainly does not mean that it is weak.

And that is discounting the exceedingly strong power of the L4 blessing at high levels of air magic. For instance I love air 8-10 for Marignon (a Virtue is best for this) since it will allow my crossbows to fire straight into the same enemy formation my Knights of the Chalice are engaging in melee - and I don't need my Virtue along to cast "Arrow Fend" to get the effect, any priest will do.

A high level of air magic useles?? I think not.

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by Sandman:
Personally, I'd go for total immunity to lightning and a free cast of charge body. This is not dreadfully overpowered, but it's useful from the start, and it's different from the other bless effects. Mirror image would be too similar to twist fate, and the Van and Tuatha have glamour already.

Charge body combined with total immunity would be dreadfully overpowered. Every enemy hitting one of your sacred units (for the first time) would die. Imagine attacking an army of knights with flagellants. 30 flagellants would beat 40 or 50 knights. Most of these knights would die.

[Sandman]

Air 9 blessing makes for a truly AWESOME combination used together with Wrathful skies - and is the best protection against an enemy using that spell if you have many sacred troops.

I suppose I'm wedded to the idea of using bless effects as a booster to early game power, and I don't deny that sounds like a powerful combination. But the pain in paying for a bless effect that doesn't have as much immediate power as some of the others and then researching a level six spell doesn't sound that great.

And that is discounting the exceedingly strong power of the L4 blessing at high levels of air magic. For instance I love air 8-10 for Marignon (a Virtue is best for this) since it will allow my crossbows to fire straight into the same enemy formation my Knights of the Chalice are engaging in melee - and I don't need my Virtue along to cast "Arrow Fend" to get the effect, any priest will do.

Well, you could always use indy archers without piercing bows, and take fire 9 instead to deal with heavy foes. Although if the air shield works on flaming arrows (which it probably does) then that method does sound interesting. But is it really 'exceedingly' strong?

I suppose my problem is that the air blessings require subtlety, whereas most of the other blessings are in-your-face badassness.

Charge body combined with total immunity would be dreadfully overpowered. Every enemy hitting one of your sacred units (for the first time) would die. Imagine attacking an army of knights with flagellants. 30 flagellants would beat 40 or 50 knights. Most of these knights would die.

You're right, of course. I'll forget about that idea.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Sandman:
Well, you could always use indy archers without piercing bows, and take fire 9 instead to deal with heavy foes. Although if the air shield works on flaming arrows (which it probably does) then that method does sound interesting. But is it really 'exceedingly' strong?

For nations with sacred heavy troops, yes. Until the enemy starts putting up "arrow fend", that is. The ability to use the nastiest and most damaging archers/crossbowmen against all enemies on the battlefield without killing off your own heavy troops is a very, very, strong combination. And, of course, it also stops the most common counter to the heavy troops as it prevents your opponent from shooting them as well.

The latter is not so much an issue against the AI as against human players, I must admit, as the AI never uses enough archers/crossbowmen.

I suppose my problem is that the air blessings require subtlety, whereas most of the other blessings are in-your-face badassness.

Sounds likely. I will freely admit that I find the Fire-9 blessing the easiest to apply to a multitude of situations (so long as I have sacred troops able to survive for more than a round in combat ). Water-9 is also easy to like, especially for sacred-mage nations but everybody can use the effect. Earth-9 is really only for specialists (T'ien C'hi are probably the ones that benefit the most), and Air-9 is good for those who either fear other peoples archers, their own archers, other peoples air magic, or their own air magic

Death-9 is for the dead or the living who want to stick around (and have undead leadership). Nature-9 is for those without sacred mages and whose sacred troops are better off dead than alive [hence the Death-9/Nature-9 combination that is occasionally seen], Astral-9 is for those who really fear being mind dueled and thinks everybody sacred ought to have a second chance - once, and Blood-9 is the most useless blessing of them all (so, the unit that killed you got cursed - who cares?)

With such a list I am sure you will agree that air-9 is far from useless

[archaeolept]

I think Blood 9 is arguably useful for Marignon Diabolic Faith in multiplayer.

dirt cheap auto-curses act as a deterrent, somewhat like miasma.

as well, the +4 str would quite help their dual attack...

[ March 19, 2004, 21:52: Message edited by: archaeolept ]

[archaeolept]

[ March 19, 2004, 21:47: Message edited by: archaeolept ]

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by archaeolept:
I think Blood 9 is arguably useful for Marignon Diabolic Faith in multiplayer.

dirt cheap auto-curses act as a deterrent, somewhat like miasma.

as well, the +4 str would quite help their dual attack...

Except that you need to lose a troop for it to work

Still, I guess you might be right. While taking down a Knight of the Chalice is surely worth a curse, it might not feel so worthwhile with the flagellants. On the other hand, flagellants benefit much more from a high air or fire blessing than blood. The first allows them to avoid being mown down by archers, the second deals much more damage than the blood +4 strength bonus ever did.

At the end of the day, I think that, as your opponent, I would prefer my troops to end up cursed after defeating yours rather than dead after failing to do so because you used a stronger combat blessing.

Having my own troops cursed (yet victorious), while bad, is not very bad. The only troops I hate having cursed are my important commanders, and an enemy does not need blood-9 in MP to curse those, he can usually make do with totem shields.

That said, I have not tried actually facing a blood-9 Marignon blessing in MP. Who knows, the reality of it might change my perception.

[ March 19, 2004, 22:05: Message edited by: Peter Ebbesen ]

Blood 9 Blessing is what I'd like to call a joke. It's not even a guarenteed 'curse' but has a chance of cursing.

Even with +4 Strength a Blood 9 has no attraction outside of what you would be casting with the Blood (I don't see many low level Blood+ spells so only useful if you plan on getting Blood 8-9, which is quite a plan). Being able to rustle up some blood slaves is nice; but hardly worth the point cost of getting 9 Blood.

A much more attractive blessing would be one that includes a HP bonus. This I could see would have potential for use and abuse (which is the point of the 9 Blessings, right?)

[ March 19, 2004, 22:10: Message edited by: Zen ]

[archaeolept]

well, I certainly wouldn't want to argue that it is any good, really.

I know I never take it, and I like bless effects.
(Blood 4 is a nice addition sometimes, though. works well w/ W9 battle vestals or serpent dancers).

[ March 19, 2004, 22:19: Message edited by: archaeolept ]