standard ulm in multiplayer....

[condors]

playing in norfleet's games settings:

world map
indies 6
resources 75
events rare

i have been using the great alchemist pretender for site searching

norfleet (ermor) is normally an unstoppable force
i don't compete in gem income, army strength, or dominion.

It may be i just need to get better as a player and i can except that but with these game settings is it even feasible that ulm will be able to compete with a good ermor player?

I have a couple tactics that could turn the game in my favor but getting to the point is just not possible as he can dominion me out without even trying (almost happened Last game)(clams for doom horrors my offense, fetishes-lots of money PD and reg troops, and a demon factory my defense)

in single player games it works very well in multiplayer it just isn't happening for me any suggestions? and i know norfleet will be reading this but if he ever thought i was even a mild threat in out Last 2 games i must be missing something as i thought by turn 20 it wasn't even close

[archaeolept]

Ally.

Band together for defense, and, in return, pump out anti-undead magic items for your friends, until Ermor is dealt with. Don't be stingy.

Otherwise, Ulm seems weak against Ermor. Run away?

[archaeolept]

to expand on this:

send out a few scouts early. You need to locate Ermor toute-de-suite, as well as identifying those other players who are closest to him. then start sending a few gifts. Even small, nominal presents in the early game will cement an alliance, esp. against what will seem like an immediate threat to the players in Ermor's immediate vicinity.

Again, don't be stingy in giving away items. Hopefully, your allies will send you gems in order to forge more stuff.

Why was Norfleet's dominion so strong? endless temples payed for w/ alchemized gems?

[ March 12, 2004, 17:03: Message edited by: archaeolept ]

[ywl]

Originally posted by condors:
playing in norfleet's games settings:

world map
indies 6
resources 75
events rare

i have been using the great alchemist pretender for site searching

norfleet (ermor) is normally an unstoppable force
i don't compete in gem income, army strength, or dominion.

It may be i just need to get better as a player and i can except that but with these game settings is it even feasible that ulm will be able to compete with a good ermor player?

I have a couple tactics that could turn the game in my favor but getting to the point is just not possible as he can dominion me out without even trying (almost happened Last game)(clams for doom horrors my offense, fetishes-lots of money PD and reg troops, and a demon factory my defense)

in single player games it works very well in multiplayer it just isn't happening for me any suggestions? and i know norfleet will be reading this but if he ever thought i was even a mild threat in out Last 2 games i must be missing something as i thought by turn 20 it wasn't even close

You're not playing Ulm like Ulm...

Which Ermor? The dead Ermor doesn't have good army. They're easily banished even by cheap priests of yours. You just need more of them, e.g. around 10 in an army.

Ulm's first strength is Earth magic. It gives you the Boot of Behemonth turning any large size unit into powerful army destroyers. It also give you the various constructs, Clockwork Horrors, Crushers and Lumber Construct (if you get some nature). These constructs are unroutable. They can engage the undeads while your priests happily doing their work. You will also have a large number of Earth gem income, the Fall Bear are useful as a shield versus the undeads.

Your second strength is your master smiths. Even with their low magic, they're very useful in combat. Check on the Evocation path. There are several very powerful combat spells for Earth or Earth+Fire. Remember: you can boost your caster's Earth level by one with "Summon Earth Power". Fire level increase is also possible if you give them a gem, so that they can cast "Pheonix Power" - any mage can cast spell one level higher with a gem.

Search site out by spells. They're mostly in Thaumatury 2. It'll be way faster than using your pretender.

Finally, don't use a rainbow mage in MP unless you know what you're doing. In general, the magic wealth can't compensate the loss of a combat pretender and poor scales. For Ulm, you could at least consider a Naga, who can search and still have 100+ hitpoints. Dominions 4 or 5 is adequate. It's very hard to preach out a human player unless his god and prophet are gone. In that case, you're almost lost anyway.

And of course, nobody like Ashen Empire or Soul Gate. As soon as you meet him on the map, make sure everybody know and gang up on him immediately. It's usually an easy alliance to start.

[ March 12, 2004, 17:22: Message edited by: ywl ]

[Tricon]

just to elaborate (most has been said by ywl, already):
- get a lot of priests(obvoiously... 10 priests banishing is a force to be reckoned with as undead... however unfortunately there are some ghastly protection spells out there for undead... )

- build constructs (all kinds or preffered) for their morale and soaking abilities

- trample helps (make the boots, as ywl suggests), don't hesitate to fight(not necessarily attack) with leaders. They're units, too (albeit expensive iones).

- research the two(maybe three) magic paths that work with your general strategy, don't try to research everything. Research is often just a race to reach your essential spells first. Once your research is up it's fairly easy to "catch up"

- Ermors PD is pityful. If you have fliers(somehow) or distant province summoning spell, go and harass his hinterlands.

- Think about some cold prtection for key leaders (definately for those that will see close combat).


The problem really is putting myself in your shoes. This game is so different, depending on the strategies an enemy uses... Ermor alone has a lot of different strategies at their disposal. And norfleet seems to know what he's doing with'em.

[Norfleet]

Achaeolept would have you hurl yourself into a giant war AGAINST me. It's an usable strategy on maps which are largely devoid of any real terrain features like Orania or Oran, where everything is simply a gigantic, semi-homogenous land mass. That's not at all true with World, where waging a trans-oceanic war as a non-seafaring race can be sufficiently difficult as to be an exercise in futility.

And isn't being on *MY* side so much more attractive? I was more or less content to leave you in peace and let you have India. Worrying about how to fight me should be less of a concern to you than maintaining your own empire! The gigantic Ermorian army is more often than not a paper tiger: While huge, it's easily slaughtered en-masse and not easy to mass into a sizeable force, as they tend to sprout up all over the map and wind up everywhere. On the flip-side, hit-and-run skirmishing is not terribly helpful with Ermor for the same reason.

You should work on mastering you own early expansion before worrying about picking a fight with somebody.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Tricon:
Ermors PD is pityful. If you have fliers(somehow) or distant province summoning spell, go and harass his hinterlands.

Ermor's PD may be pitiful, and can hardly afford to spend wads of cash on PD, but only one point of PD will enable the regular detritus that gathers in Ermorian provinces to fight. While the PD itself is pitiful, there will probably be a few dozen random units lounging around waiting for an outbound commander to grab them, and with a 1-pt PD, a free commander will be spawned to lead them should the province be attacked. While hardly an obstacle to invasion force, it's certainly adequate for fending off a few pesky Black Hawks or some madmen/flagellants. Even if the province falls, you're hardly depriving the Ermorian player of his valuable 0 income, and there will surely be sufficient dungeon detritus in a neighboring province to retake the lost province with ease. Raiding is a tactic for disrupting an opponent's economy, while his army is not present. Ermor has no economy, and an army is nearly always present.

I think that my presence may be overly polarizing the discussion, though: Condors doesn't need Ulm vs. Ermor tips, he needs general Ulmish tips.

[ March 12, 2004, 18:50: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

[archaeolept]

Achaeolept would have you hurl yourself into a giant war AGAINST me

well, it was what he wanted to know...

and you have won the prior games, and these settings do seem to fit your strategy...

I'm sure you'll do just fine...

[Tricon]

Do you play vanilla ermor? Sounds more like ashen empire...

anyway,

so if he goes on to harrass you, you have nothing to worry about.

(On a side note: and please feel free to pm the answer- I'm just curious- do you harvest your undead or do you wait for the mound king?)

[Truper]

Ermor may have no gold ecomomy, but its gem economy is important. A valid target for raiding.