Question on Blood Sacrifice (and Mictlan)

[onomastikon]

Hello, I did some searching, but didnt find the answers to these questions.

I was thinking of trying out Mictlan because I like the tribal theme (I enjoy Machaka too), and see lots of their troops are sacred. Just sounds interesting.

But I still don't understand blood sacrifice, and especially not with Mictlan.

How does blood sacrifice work exactly -- I mean: by how much does the dominion increase per blood slave sacrificed? And this is supposed to increase the dominion globally -- does that mean that if it is increased by X, does it increase by X *everywhere* at once (including enemy capital??) or only radiating out from the point of sacrifice? And if so, how does it radiate out? Like a temple (which is permanent) for one turn only or at a different rate? Does the initial "Dominion Strength" setting (during God creation) factor in, and to what degree?

I played Abysia a bit and just ignored blood, since I didnt understand it and it did not seem very good to me. Dominion spread normally anyhow.

But with Mictlan: Apparently, dominion will not spread without blood sacrifices. But during God creation, I can choose "restless worshippers" -- how then does that work? How do their Temples function -- simply as places for recruiting and for doing blood sacrifices, but with no dominion spread effect? Does the prophet still spread dominion? Does the Pretender?

I read the Mictlan post started by Moodgiesanta, and he said he would make sure his dominion never entered his main research province -- how does that work if dominion doesnt spread in the normal way but rather globally?

thank you for the help

[Norfleet]

Each blood slave sacrificed during blood sacrifices spreads Dominion just like a temple check, which is performed once per turn at a temple of anyone who isn't Mictlan. So if you sacrifice 6 blood slaves every turn, it'll be as if there was a 6x (or 7x, if Vanheim/Abyssia, since the temple itself will perform a check) temple there.
The details of how a temple check spread Dominion can be found here:
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...=000981#000011

[onomastikon]

Thank you.

I am still confused about blood sacrifices being supposed to "spread dominion over the world" (the in-game popup description). Is that just a language problem of mine, or what?

In any case: do I understand correctly that a temple is just a building in which to perform sacrifices, and these raise the dominion in that province only and DO NOT "spread" it? That in the case of Mictlan, nothing will "spread" it? (Not so for Abysia.)

By "spread" I understand: move outwards from a point, much like a drop of water might cause ripples on lake's surface.

Thank you for helping me.

EDIT: I just tested, made a Mictlan God (the Mirror), with default dominion, and got no prophet, only recruited a scout. (Just made 1 AI on Urgaia). I did nothing but wait. After about 3 turns, my dominion spread to 1 neighboring province, after 4-5 then to the others. I did get one random event that faith increased in my own province, it went up to 2.
So something must be "spreading" the dominion, either the god, the temple, the home province, or something. The dominion did not "rise", however.

So still confused.

Side question: Is there a point in making the dominion very high during God creation?

[ February 03, 2004, 16:48: Message edited by: onomastikon ]

[Truper]

ceremony put together an *awesome* guide to dominion and how it spreads. You can find it here: http://www.maladjustite.com/dominion.pdf

You can think of Mictlan temples as being like any other, except that it takes blood sacrifices to activate them. Since temples can spread dominion to nearby provinces, "spread dominion over the world" does make sense. In your test, your god was spreading dominion, which is the only "free" domionion spread Mictlan can get.

[General Tacticus]

As Norfleet said, each blood slave sacrificed gives you the equivalent of a temple check in the province where it is sacrificed. Multiple sacrifices, even by the same priest, give multiple checks. A sacrifice can only happen in a temple, and only one priest can perform sacrifices (but he can perform more than one, with high blood and/or a jade knife) in each temple.

In other words, put a Mictlan priest in a temple, with order to sacrifice one blood slave a turn, and you have a regular temple. Tell him to kill 2 slaves a turn (assuming he can) and you have the equivalent of 2 temples in the province...

Also, it seems (I'll have to check properly some time) that if you choose a generic pretender, he does increase dominion by himself, but if you choose one of the Mictlan-specific ones, he doesn't. The prophet does not spread dominion. Restless worshippers, IIRC, only diminish enemy dominion, but do not increase your own. Victory point seem to spread dominion (I'll have to make a "scientific" test sometime, not just rely on what I recall of my Mictlan games...)

By not putting any temple in or near a province, or by not doing sacrifices in those temple, you can pretty much assure that your dominion won't grow in that province - quite easy for Mictlan.

[PvK]

Yes, read the explanation article.

The Mictlani capitol and the pretender both increase dominion, and dominion increase has a chance to spread to neighboring provinces, which increases as the dominion in the source province increases.

What I still wonder, is whether independent priests can be used to spread dominion for Mictlan, without sacrificing a slave. I assume they can't.

I'm thinking of having my Mictlan invest in some false idols, to beat down neighboring dominions, to save me some blood.

PvK

[quantum_mechani]

Originally posted by onomastikon:

Side question: Is there a point in making the dominion very high during God creation?

Well, higher dominion can greatly increase god and prophet hit points. My main reason for using high dominion pretenders, however, is it that you can only recruit as many sacred troops as your max dominion. More dominion also makes you harder to kill with a preaching strategy.

[PvK]

Particularly for Mictlan a high dominion could be useful, since it reduces your need to use blood slaves to keep your dominion around.

Otherwise, it depends on what your dominion scales are like, and what your neighbors' scales are like, and what magic etc. you want to use that is affected by dominion. There are many many examples of effects of this - keeping harmful scale effects away, keeping the heat where your men like it (important for Mictlan, which prefers +1 heat), keeping miasmatic dominion away, determining where various global spells take effect (e.g. Gift of Health, Wrath of God, etc.), etc etc etc. Heaps o' meaningful side-effects of dominion strength.

PvK

[onomastikon]

Originally posted by Truper:
ceremony put together an *awesome* guide to dominion and how it spreads. You can find it here: http://www.maladjustite.com/dominion.pdf

You can think of Mictlan temples as being like any other, except that it takes blood sacrifices to activate them. Since temples can spread dominion to nearby provinces, "spread dominion over the world" does make sense. In your test, your god was spreading dominion, which is the only "free" domionion spread Mictlan can get.

First of all, thanks.
Secondly, I cant get that link to work, keep getting the message "could not find acrobat" (although of course I have the reader installed). Does anyone have that .pdf somewhere else?
Thirdly, didnt Tacticus say that blood sacrifices raise dominion in *that province* (I will call this "raise" dominion, or when it happens, "rise"), but does not spread it to neighboring dominions ("spread")? So what you are saying is that it does both raise and spread?
And it seems that even the Mictlan home pantheon god "spreads" dominion (although he will not cause it to "rise")?
PvK: the dominion in my home province never increased.
OK well in any case, thank you all -- I am still confused, but maybe understanding more. Must finish my Pythium game first....

[PvK]

The file is there. Try right-clicking and downloading it to your computer. Then load Acrobat, and then load the file into Acrobat manually.

It explains dominion in great detail, with the exception of Mictlani details.

As we've alluded to, most forms of dominion increase have a chance of "spreading", affecting not the province of the source, but an adjacent province. According to the article, which seems consistent with my impressions from playing, the chance of spread goes up, the closer to the maximum the source province is. Note that you can't exceed your max dominion strength, and that max strength goes up by one for every five temples you have. The level in a province also has a strong effect on how hard it is for opposing sources to reduce that dominion.

PvK