RFC sneaking retreat must die?

Gandalf Parker · #1 December 16th, 2003, 07:58 PM

Request For Comment: (its an old internet thing)

Sneaking units dont get the useage that I think would be good. Nations with sneaking units such as Man and Pangaea tend to be on the "needs a boost" list. Im wondering if it would be too unbalancing if sneaking units could survive a retreat into unowned territory.

If its too much... maybe just if they hit independent territorys.

If its a good idea but alittle light.. maybe add surviving a rout?

Possibly this could be an added benefit of certain units. Or commanders only, not entire armys

[ December 16, 2003, 17:59: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Jasper · #2 December 16th, 2003, 09:33 PM

Sneaking units work very well for raiding, as after taking a province they can always sneak away, then strike again. It's very difficult to stop them. The only real defense is to guess where they're going to strike, and meet them there. If sneaking commanders could retreat freely, then you could never catch scouts, and patrolling would be essentially worthless against sneaking troops.

Man is one of the best nations, and hardly needs a boost. Pangaea is in the middle somewhere, and seems ok; fixing the order/misfortune inbalance would help them out enough, although I would be happy to see the non-hoplite satyrs be more usefull.

Psitticine · #3 December 18th, 2003, 03:21 AM

I rather like the chance-to-retreat option. Possibly a chance based on their Sneak level and general experience level to get away? Also possibly modified by the local defense and patrollers present in the province targetted to retreat into?

I think if it isn't automatic, that would keep it from being overpowering, and it makes a lot of sense for stealth units to "retreat into the shadows" if they are lucky. After all, hiding is what they do!

Gandalf Parker · #4 December 18th, 2003, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Psitticine:
I rather like the chance-to-retreat option. Possibly a chance based on their Sneak level and general experience level to get away?

The thing I like about that is that the farther they are from home, the more you hate to lose them. But the higher they are likely to be in level so your way gives them a chance.

NTJedi · #5 December 18th, 2003, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jasper:
Man is one of the best nations, and hardly needs a boost. Pangaea is in the middle somewhere, and seems ok; ...

Pangaea is one of the worst in my opinion. Getting any units with researching or magic casting is very expensive and ranged units are expensive.
The Dryads have only 3 research... I'm sure most players would trade the one nature magic for 2 more research.

Graeme Dice · #6 December 18th, 2003, 08:37 AM

Quote:

The Dryads have only 3 research... I'm sure most players would trade the one nature magic for 2 more research.

That would make them nearly as good as Sages, and far better than most other mages, considering that they are sacred. The best way to use them is to take a magic scale or three.

NTJedi · #7 December 18th, 2003, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:
The Dryads have only 3 research... I'm sure most players would trade the one nature magic for 2 more research.

That would make them nearly as good as Sages, and far better than most other mages, considering that they are sacred. The best way to use them is to take a magic scale or three.

Considering the kingdoms overall effectiveness during gameplay I would say that it would balance things for them.
Heck I can get witches from Machaka for 90 gold with 5 research plus they have 1 nature, 1 death and 1 fire !!
Much better deal than the 110 gold for the dryad... which has one nature.

[ December 18, 2003, 06:55: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

NTJedi · #8 December 18th, 2003, 05:09 PM

Yes the stealth is nice and the race can work somewhat against computer opponents. Yet from my multiplayer experience Pangaea is an easy target to feed on playing with or against Pangaea. Perhaps on a huge map with very few opponents they're effective.

[ December 18, 2003, 15:09: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

Gandalf Parker · #9 December 19th, 2003, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NTJedi:
Heck I can get witches from Machaka for 90 gold with 5 research plus they have 1 nature, 1 death and 1 fire !!
Much better deal than the 110 gold for the dryad... which has one nature.

I dont remember, are the witches stealth? IMHO the "use" of pangaea is to use its stealth. If you try to play default Pangy as a just another army with stealth being an interesting occassional use thing then yes its going to test out near the bottom.

As a sneak-across-the-map erupt-somewhere-else unit the dryad is very handy because it can construct everything. And provide a decent dominion push.

PvK · #10 December 20th, 2003, 02:18 AM

The auto-deaths on retreat are one of the very few things I don't particularly like about the game. It's a minor perfectionist gripe, but ideally, I'd like to see routed units not necessarily die even if they don't have an escape route, sometimes returning to friendly territory after a long time, or hiding out in enemy territory until rescued or caught.

Quote:

Originally posted by NTJedi:
...Considering the kingdoms overall effectiveness during gameplay I would say that it would balance things for them.
Heck I can get witches from Machaka for 90 gold with 5 research plus they have 1 nature, 1 death and 1 fire !!
Much better deal than the 110 gold for the dryad... which has one nature.

Are Machakan witches sacred? If not, then compare the Dryad at 55 gold for maintenance purposes. They then have more research per maintenance.

PvK

[ December 20, 2003, 00:21: Message edited by: PvK ]