Does the AI use intel very well?

raynor · #1 February 1st, 2001, 09:22 PM

Do you think the AI uses intel to its maximum effect? Below is a list of stuff that happened to me during my Last game when one empire was spending 200,000 intel points per turn against my 40,000 defensive intel points:

They successfully damaged several planet's conditions, did food contamination, made colonies unhappy. They stole a couple of battle cruisers inside my system--one of which had stellar manipulation components which had just been built. They disrupted research projects that had been going for 5 turns. The worst one they did was to mess with a 20% trade treaty that was bringing in 100,000 minerals per turn. That one stung a little bit. They also cost ships supplies or messed up the orders of ships.

My opinion is that once your empire grows to a certain size, you aren't going to feel the effects of these minor intel projects that strongly. But what would have happened to me if the AI had been spending all its points on Puppet Political Parties? With 200,000 intel points, couldn't the EA have grabbed hold of a couple of my planets every turn?

Also, any thoughts from those of you who have used intel yourself to bring the AI to its knees... rdouglas?

rdouglass · #2 February 1st, 2001, 09:56 PM

I definitely don't think the Ai uses intel very well (just like many other areas). I don't think that the AI altering the orders of one of my transports or colony ships for 1 turn hurts me a bit, large or small. I've never even had a Crew Insurrection against me. However, if the AI WAS intelling PPP's or Crew Insurrection, I definitely would be spending a much larger portion of my intel points towards Counter Intel.

Unfortunately, the AI does not... If it did, there would be far more discussions about the importance of Intel. Now as it stands, many people feel Intel is a waste.

Raynor, are you using any specific Mods, 'cause I'd love to get into a heavy Intel Battle with an AI... Yes, as it stands now, I CAN bring down any AI I've been up against with Intel operations after about 100 turns. Of course, I'm usually producing 250 - 300,000 Intel points....

raynor · #3 February 1st, 2001, 10:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rdouglass:
Raynor, are you using any specific Mods, 'cause I'd love to get into a heavy Intel Battle with an AI... Yes, as it stands now, I CAN bring down any AI I've been up against with Intel operations after about 100 turns. Of course, I'm usually producing 250 - 300,000 Intel points....

I think I had bonus turned on, probably. Here are the numbers I think that gives:

Low Bonus: 2x AI research and 2x intel
Med Bonus: 3x AI research and 3x intel
High Bonus: 5x AI research and 5x intel

The main trouble came from Mephisto's Earth Alliance which was producing 40,000 intel points per turn but spending 200,000.

raynor · #4 February 1st, 2001, 10:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rdouglass:
Yes, as it stands now, I CAN bring down any AI I've been up against with Intel operations after about 100 turns. Of course, I'm usually producing 250 - 300,000 Intel points....

Wow! Doesn't' that massive investment in intel put you behind on research?

Next time you load up a game, could you please check and see how many enemy planets you can PPP away from him per year? I would be really interested in hearing the results of a very different way of playing the game. It sounds like you are having some serious fun with intel!

Noble713 · #5 February 1st, 2001, 10:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rdouglass:
I definitely don't think the Ai uses intel very well (just like many other areas). I don't think that the AI altering the orders of one of my transports or colony ships for 1 turn hurts me a bit, large or small

Once, the AI altered the orders of a ship, and the ship happened to be in one of my main battle fleets. The fleet moved a good 5-6 hexes out of position, and on the subsequent AI turns a fleet came in through the now unguarded warp point and bLasted one of my planets.

For the most part order changes are just a nuissance, but on occassion the AI gets lucky and really messes things up.

rdouglass · #6 February 1st, 2001, 10:50 PM

Raynor, yes it does require a big investment in intel facilities. However, there are many areas that I don't have to research BECAUSE of my intel strategies. For instance, I never research propulsion 'cause I Crew Insurrect an AI ship, get it to a "mobile" Ship Yard (or get the SY to it) and analyse the ship. That gives me the techs (alas in 1 tech level increments). Same goes for Colony techs, etc. I usually just research my racial techs (usually organic - I LOVE the Enveloping Acid Globules), Shields, Stellar Manip, Intel, Ship Construction, Point defense, and Stellar Harnessing. Everything else I steal. Sure does reduce the amount of research facilities I need.

As to the PPP thing, when I'm cranking out intel points, I try to PPP 1 planet every other turn, 1 ship to Crew Insurrection per turn, and the rest to various Counter Intel. Crew Insurrect seems to work every time while as PPP works about 75% of the time.

I also play huge galaxy, low tech games so it gives me a few turns to get my intel act together before I encounter another AI. The only downfall is if I meet an AI early. Then I have to do some scrambling - usually resort to mines or missles - and go heavy on the defense.

Yes, it does definitely put a cool twist on the game. IMO that (Intel) is a HUGE improvement over SE3. You should try that strategy once and see how you like it.

Man, I wish I had MORE TIME to play....

Tampa_Gamer · #7 February 1st, 2001, 10:54 PM

As I posted in my Darlok readme.txt-

"(2) The second biggest advantage the Darlok had was their Intel capability. Although I have given them a considerable Intel boost via racial %, the text files currently do not let you prioritize the Intel projects by a certain race. This leads to many projects. Most races have between 8-12 projects outstanding at a time with very long completions times. My suggested fixed was to have a file similar to the research file where races can have a priority order and % operating at a time (again similar to the research file). This would accomplish the following: (a) certain races could have aggressive, neutral or defensive projects depending one their demeanor and AI_State and (b) it would eliminate the current problem of inefficient use of Intel Points for projects which result in information the AI will never use (i.e. census or designs)."

Anyway, I really hope an "Intel" file (as I described above) is created for the races. I know, not until the bugs are fixed - but hopefully prior to SE5.

[This message has been edited by Tampa_Gamer (edited 01 February 2001).]

Sinapus · #8 February 1st, 2001, 11:05 PM

Have you been running counterintelligence operations? Like at least four to six? Or am I just paranoid?

------------------
--
"What do -you- want?" "I'd like to live -just- long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this..." *waggle* "...can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"

rdouglass · #9 February 1st, 2001, 11:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Sinapus:
Have you been running counterintelligence operations? Like at least four to six? Or am I just paranoid?

Once I encounter another race, I always run at least 2 Counter Intel's. Yup, I'm paranoid too.

raynor · #10 February 1st, 2001, 11:16 PM

I never thought of doing Crew Insurrection to steal enemy ships for tech. That's a smart idea.

Alas... I am still so clueless when it comes to intel. I *finally* in my Last game decided that it might be better to have multiple counter-intel projects running simultaneously instead of just one at a time that got all my points and finished earlier. I guess everyone has decided it's better to run several at one time?

I really, really, really don't understand how counter-intel works...