Question about Ukraine OOB...

[MarkSheppard]

AFU recovery working well

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/s...02046953418755

(M2A2 Brad being towed by M88 wrecker)

[DRG]

Originally Posted by MarkSheppard

Abrams is "now in Ukraine" per Zelenskyy, and the US is now talking about an additional 30 to be delivered on top of the initial increment of 30...

Which means the 10/23 OOB date was a "good guess"........

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I would rather think it was an "educated" guess at the time. All the signs pointed to it and maybe we've just been doing it for so long as well.

However, there was a delay which will probably push it back to JAN 2024 before they get all 31 tanks to form the Battalion that will operate them.

So far none of the Western tanks or other tanks (M-55S.) have been fielded before their Battalions have received them.

They will receive 6-8 in the initial shipment. All are Ex-Marine tanks.

I feel the 80 some FEP tanks the CORPS had, have by this time finished their conversion to the M1A1C.

The FEP tanks were modernized enough to minimize the time to convert them to the M1A2C standard. I'm guessing saving three to four months less on the production line then the current 18 to 24 months for the rest as has been already posted.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...aine_soon.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe..._pentagon.html

Also, I didn't intend at the time to mean nothing more than we wouldn't see the M1A2D (SEP 4) before the game ended. Well thins have taken a dramatic turn NO ONE will see the M1A2D (SEP 4) .

"On September 6, 2023, the U.S. Army announced its decision to halt the ongoing upgrades of the M1A2 Abrams Main Battle Tank. Instead, the Army has initiated the development of a new armored platform, referred to as the M1E3 Abrams, with the objective of addressing the evolving requirements of future battlefields, particularly those expected to emerge beyond the year 2040."

"The Army's official statement indicates that the M1E3 Abrams is anticipated to achieve its initial operational capability in the early 2030s. This timeframe coincides with growing concerns surrounding evolving warfare scenarios, as exemplified by recent events such as the conflict in Ukraine."

"This modernization initiative is expected to bolster the effectiveness and maneuverability of armored brigade combat teams on a global scale, achieved by reducing sustainment demands and improving operational and tactical mobility. As part of the transition process, the Army will continue limited production of the M1A2 SEP v.3 until production fully shifts to the M1E3 Abrams. Additionally, critical technologies will be carried forward into the SEPv4 Abrams modernization program." (In other words; the current SEP 4 technologies will serve as the baseline technologies for the M1E3 ABRAMS.)
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...ttle_tank.html

Regards,
Pat

[MarkSheppard]

Poor don and andy...

Looks like the Russians pulled some BTR-90 pre-production prototypes and used them up in Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/praisethesteph/s...74425119367238

A very rare 🇷🇺#Russian BTR-90 wheeled IFV first spotted on the battlefield, allegedly near #Avdiivka, #Donetsk oblast.

The BTR-90 is a wheeled IFV designed in 1993, armed with a 30mm 2A42 autocannon, a 7.62mm PKT machine gun, a 9M113 Konkurs ATGM and a 30mm AGS-17 automatic grenade launcher. It never made it into the Russian Army's armament.

https://twitter.com/AndreiBtvt/statu...67191849107695

First ever BTR-90 in action. Less than a dozen made and stored in Russia #38 research institute

...

The BTR-90 was adopted by the Russian Armed Forces by Order of the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation No. 324 of June 9, 2008.
Defense Minister of the Russian Federation No. 324 of June 9, 2008, but it was not mass-produced

[DRG]

My head hurts........

FORTUNATLY they still exist in old OOB's I had saved

BUT

That was not a 30mm gun firing in the second X post

and that link to what it claimed was a BTR https://t.me/btvt2019/6252

This is the translation

Also, several 2S31 “Vena” were at the Kubinka training ground. It is precisely possible that it was his “exhibits” that began to be sent to the troops. There they glowed right next to the Shkvals. I wouldn’t be surprised if time soon comes to even rarer machines, if they can be put into operation.

Does not show the same forward hull in the video as that link they are totally different

This is a BTR-90 There is in an old OOB a BTR-90M-FSV that has a 30mm gun AND a 100mm gun but that was not what was shown firing in that link

https://www.militarytoday.com/apc/btr_90.htm

The few made could certainly have been sent.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

They will receive 6-8 in the initial shipment. All are Ex-Marine tanks.

I feel the 80 some FEP tanks the CORPS had, have by this time finished their conversion to the M1A1C.

The FEP tanks were modernized enough to minimize the time to convert them to the M1A2C standard. I'm guessing saving three to four months less on the production line then the current 18 to 24 months for the rest as has been already posted.

Regards,
Pat

Seeing this and thinking it over I doubt the US Army would loan the USMC their very best tanks (what M1A2C's they have will undoubtedly be in or earmarked for Germany.
So for next years patch the US Army loans to the USMC are downgraded to the M1A2v2 SEP.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Just got back very late Sat. night after 4 days out West to see U2 in concert at the Sphere. Yesterday was a recovery day after the both of us walked just over 25-26 miles in those four days in sandals. Don't mess with CINCLANTHOME she can hold her "own powder" quite well.

So, I figured, I'd look in and saw my Marine Buddy is on top of her game with the above post. Now about the APS issue with FEP, WELL THAT CAN WAIT UNTIL ANOTHER DAY.

It appears the USA is certainly taking the same road to FOC with the M1A2C as they did with the M1A2 SEP 2, where the "magic number" was at least 8 fully equipped and trained Battalions as my memory serves from my submission a few years back (In FB Patch Tread.).

As a reminder, the M1A2D as posted is DOA.

I know we go back and forth much like Don and I do as well. At the end of the day, I know no matter the outcome, it's all "water under the bridge" and we move on.

You have my utmost respect and I've never forgotten that you and IMP (John) were there when I first posted out here and guided me through those initial (And at times current ones as well.) rough patches.

I've made a point to NEVER forget those that have been there in my life no matter the circumstances. And I've personally thanked every one of them. In that regard, my conscious is clear before the "big move" occurs.

Though I'm quite content to stay where I am for a little while longer if that's OK with the "Big Boss"

If anyone thinks you made it on your own, then now would be a good time to wake up and get yourself a STRONG cup of coffee/tea (Or whatever. I like an Ovaltine with a couple of shots of St. Bernards from Londonderry/Derry (N) IE about 5 times a year. ) or "smell the roses".

Now that I've digressed, I'll just say good night and have a good morning!

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Now about the APS issue with FEP, WELL THAT CAN WAIT UNTIL ANOTHER DAY.

Regards,
Pat

Ignoring the APS - FEP issue.

I have to wonder about the armor package the USMC Abrams had. It was (according to what I could find) the "Heavy Common" package. Did the US Army M1A2 of various iterations use this same armor package or an upgraded one? If the same then yes upgrading M1A1 FEPs to M1A2C shouldn't be too time intensive. BUT ... if the M1A2C uses better armor then ... takes time to manufacture and replace armor ... lots of it.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

That is why my thought was the time saved in the conversion process might only be about 3-4 months not so much because of the armor as much as the electronics was much more advanced on the M1A1 FEP as compared to the rest of the USMC tank fleet at the time.

That leaves a conversation time of 18 to 20 months to complete the process.

FEP was more than the FCS and associated systems. For an upgrade such as FEP you're talking about installing more digital subsystems, rewiring, upgrading the powerplant to provide the extra power required to operate the systems and mechanically modifying the cooling systems to protect the circuits and equipment from overheating.

It's not much of a leap to think about a Submarine and Tank to be related when it comes to electronics onboard, they both need the same systems to maintain a healthy onboard electronic environment.

As I've pointed out in the past, that's why onboard a Submarine we try to maintain an ambient temp. ~70 -72 degrees and cooling systems (Thing a High-End gaming computer using a chill water system.).

I used to get some crap out here when I brought that up about tanks many years ago, IT NEVER WAS ABOUT THE CREW; IT WAS ONLY ABOUT THE ELECTRONICS.

Thailand when they got their OPLOT-T tanks were ordered with AC units due to the operating environment. While the Ukraine was in Thailand providing tech support for about 2 years guess what they discovered? Besides the fact as on a Submarine the crews worked more efficiently (A side benefit.) which by extension meant so did all the onboard electrical and electronic systems.

So, what do you think happened with the OPLOT/OPLOT-M? They also got A/C (I mean this as a general term.) and Chill water systems to support all the above including laser systems as well.

Armor advances always DU ARMOR is sandwiched normally between applique armor materials along with ceramic coatings and tiles or both.

The primary advances are in applique and ceramic armors. We along with other countries that use DU will use a combination of the above or all together such as us and Israel (As has been rumored).

That is why I submitted those foreign sales tanks the way I did. And I feel they are still pretty robust again because we are always advancing the science of armor.

I need to hit the rack. my vacation will be over at 1445 later today.

Have a good something wherever you are.

Regards,
Pat

[MarkSheppard]

Ran across something relatively new and recent for the Russian OBAT.

https://twitter.com/AndreiBtvt/statu...13509385392522

TOS-2 Tosochka in action in Ukraine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOS-2
https://tank-afv.com/coldwar/ussr/TOS-1-Buratino.php

For the TOS-2 Tosochka, they put a new rocket launcher (with it's own on board crane) onto a 6x6 Ural-63706-0120 chassis; combined with a newer longer range rocket.

Apparently the TOS-1A can fire three types of 220mm rockets:

The original TOS-1A had only a 2700m range with the MO.1.01.04 rocket.

This was later extended to 6000m range with the MO.1.01.04M rocket at an unspecified date.

In 2020, along with the TOS-2, they introduced a new rocket type - M0.1.01.04M2 (sometimes called TBS-M3?) which has a slightly heavier warhead and 10 km range to counter the longer ranges of modern ATGMs. However, minimum range rose from 400m to 1600m, so the shorter ranged MO.1.01.04M will continue in service for "short range" targets as necessary alongside the longer ranged rocket.