VOTD-Still like it - Page 9

JimMorrison · #81 August 3rd, 2008, 02:57 AM

Even your pretender would be in HoF, just wouldn't have a Heroic Ability.

Can they be brought back with Rebirth?

That would be very strange.....

Also Returning sounds interesting..... But you really do have to retire them from active duty to pull that off - kinda hard to chew up chaff if you're always flying back home.

chrispedersen · #82 August 3rd, 2008, 04:01 AM

Quote:

JimMorrison said:
I'm not sure how the movement is calculated Chris, but a 36 move critter will not trample 18 squares a turn, that would be..... insanely overpowered in most situations.

Also, that much trampling is enormously exhausting. It's not frolicking in a field, it's smashing bodies with your feet - even harder than squashing grapes, and ask anyone, it's hard work making wine.

Why do you say that Jim? I do realize I am rounding up in that area, but not egregiously - I only claimed that such a pretender could kill 500 or 600 undead.

36 ap in a straight line (non diagonally) 2ap when you are hasted per square = ergo a max of 18.

Endoperez · #83 August 3rd, 2008, 04:22 AM

Trampling is more than just moving, AFAIK. Size affects how much you can trample per turn, but I don't know how.

Kuritza · #84 August 3rd, 2008, 06:06 AM

Non-undead trampler will get too much exauston and fail.
Undead are immune.
'Honeypot' fails.

Endoperez · #85 August 3rd, 2008, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Kuritza said:
Non-undead trampler will get too much exauston and fail.
Undead are immune.
'Honeypot' fails.

Undead isn't necessarily enc 0 (Shadow Vestals are the only example I can think of), and enc 0 doesn't make you undead. There aren't that many enc 0 non-undead commander summons, though.

Kuritza · #86 August 3rd, 2008, 07:20 AM

Quote:

[b]Undead isn't necessarily enc 0 (Shadow Vestals are the only example I can think of), and enc 0 doesn't make you undead. There aren't that many enc 0 non-undead commander summons, though.

Exactly.

vfb · #87 August 3rd, 2008, 08:18 AM

Quote:

JimMorrison said:
Even your pretender would be in HoF, just wouldn't have a Heroic Ability.

Can they be brought back with Rebirth?

That would be very strange.....

Also Returning sounds interesting..... But you really do have to retire them from active duty to pull that off - kinda hard to chew up chaff if you're always flying back home.

Pretenders can't be turned into mummies. They can be called back from the dead of course, so have fun VotDing that 0-path Wrym, it'll just cost it some gear.

How about immortals? Does the assassination bug leave them dead if they get VotD'd?

You don't have to retire from active duty with 'Ritual of Returning' in effect. It only triggers when you take damage. I'm kind of expecting that 'death by turn 50' won't trigger the ritual though, and instead would leave you just dead. I don't expect that you'd actually take combat damage from the VotD combat.

Edit: About the 'Honeypot' plan ... I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense with the current VotD implementation, since surviving a VotD by killing everything doubles the amount of undead in the next VotD battle.

JimMorrison · #88 August 3rd, 2008, 02:14 PM

Chris - as Endo said, Trampling is not the same as moving. I also think it is size based somehow. Example being that once elephants are mired in melee, they only trample 4-5 squares. Minotaurs and Trogs trample even less. Isn't there a movement penalty for "disengaging"? If so, that's actually it, as every time you trample, you move away from some enemies.

VFB - It's really hard to kill hundreds of chaff without taking a single point of damage. I am sure it's very annoying to be 150 corpses into a large army, and see that little red 3 pop up, and your beasty *poofs*. DRN being what it is, you are guaranteed to take a little damage here and there if you are completely surrounded. Maybe not much, but probably not 0. As far as the honeypot itself, I believe that Chris' idea was that after you defeat the first VoTD, that you load that guy up with insane MR gear, and just have him travel around with your next awesomest SC.

That way his 30 MR or whatever is so close to never failing, that your opponent may never get him at all.

chrispedersen · #89 August 3rd, 2008, 11:45 PM

Jim is more or less right. My contention is there are many ways of dealing with VoTD.

A honey pot is one of them. How you create the honeypot is up to you.

As for trampling, not being strictly movement - I think you're wrong. But I think trample defenses do consume movement. Might have to dddd it and see if the log gives any info.

Karlem · #90 August 4th, 2008, 05:21 AM

You can also add Boots of long strides to reduce the cost of movement and make the unit trample more squares. With MR 30 the probabilities run in your favor, if they use the spell against you it's tying a mage (or 3+ to give them some chances) and some gems for many turns.

However I still think that the spell is not "correct" (even knowing that it is WAD), and it's fantastic that it's one of the few things that I do not like of the game.