Omaha Beach - Scen #9

[DRG]

Until this is solved this is all we are concentrating on

Here are some questions.. if you have answer or can test and get an answer please do

• is it a large map - if so, from what size upwards
  
• is it a scenario with lots and lots of dugin defenders?
  
• is it a scenario with loads of mines and stuff, trenches (not the foxholes)
  
• is it loads of artillery fires??
  
• Plus - do we have a non-assault scenario that shows this with hopefully no air show or multi regiment stonk at the start?

EDIT............. further questions
Looking at the reported scenarios -

• -seem to be assaults with loads of defence stores - mines etc
• - seems mostly to be seen with seaborne maps( but those just show it more easily so I personally don't think it's the water that does it)
• - loads of troops, especially defenders
• - the defender is on the LHS?

We need to isolate the trigger(s) there are many questions

Finding an example of a small map with small unit counts that generate the junk is probably more helpful than examples with everything dialed to the max.

We KNOW big involved sceanrios have this problem but is it all big involved sceanrios ? is it big involved sceanrios with hundreds of houses ? Lots of arty ? lots of smoke ?

Or can it be seen in smaller maps and smaller games?

What is handy now is the 'U' key allows going to the west map edge and pressing it repeatedly acts like a flashing "beacon for junk" in non water maps




Anyone wanting to be investigative playtesters please do..... the more the merrier there are lots of questions that need answers

[DRG]

Ran a 3000 point meeter on a 100x100 map and after 4-5 turns did not find anything but this is not a definitive test

I ran an 8750 defender point battle on the same map size and found junk on the grey west map edge....... not a lot but there was some


Ran a 4000 point defender ( UK vs Jap 1942)

60x60 map

Lots of air and arty ( smoke ) and mines etc

Let it run 7 turns

No junk

Ran a 4000 point defender ( UK vs Jap 1942)

85x85 map that is the next size larger than a standard max SP2 map

Lots of air and arty ( smoke ) and mines etc

Let it run 6 turns

No junk


NONE of this is definitive proof of anything.......yet

[DRG]

95x95 map----- meeter-------5 turns ran....... no junk

95x95 map----- defend--5600 points------5 turns ran....... lots of arty etc--found junk

95x95 map----- defend--10000 points------1 turn ran....... lots of arty ,smoke etc, etc--found a bit more junk

90x90 map----- defend--14000 points------1 turn ran....... lots of arty ,smoke etc, etc--found a bit more junk and some was three hexes in

70x70 map----- defend--15500 points------1 turn ran....... lots of arty ,smoke , air etc, etc-- lots of junk up to 4 hexes in from the west

45x70 map --- defend--15500 points------1 turn ran....... lots of arty ,smoke , air etc, etc-- junk up to 4-5 hexes in from the west

That last one was interesting in that I could see junk being added with just about every arty stonk...... whether that was the arty or the smoke the arty generated has yet to be determined

BUT...... we have learned a few things......... It is NOT large maps that causes this and it is NOT just older sceanrios

Testing continues

[zovs66]

Just found some junk. This is my test:

Test 1
Human (US) vs AI (German)
June 44
Map: 80x100
15,000 points
Mission: Meeting Engagement
Did not move the US
Turns ran: 10
See some junk.

[dTerm]

Originally Posted by DRG

95x95 map----- meeter-------5 turns ran....... no junk

95x95 map----- defend--5600 points------5 turns ran....... lots of arty etc--found junk

95x95 map----- defend--10000 points------1 turn ran....... lots of arty ,smoke etc, etc--found a bit more junk

90x90 map----- defend--14000 points------1 turn ran....... lots of arty ,smoke etc, etc--found a bit more junk and some was three hexes in

70x70 map----- defend--15500 points------1 turn ran....... lots of arty ,smoke , air etc, etc-- lots of junk up to 4 hexes in from the west

45x70 map --- defend--15500 points------1 turn ran....... lots of arty ,smoke , air etc, etc-- junk up to 4-5 hexes in from the west

That last one was interesting in that I could see junk being added with just about every arty stonk...... whether that was the arty or the smoke the arty generated has yet to be determined

BUT...... we have learned a few things......... It is NOT large maps that causes this and it is NOT just older sceanrios

Testing continues

Thx for the sum-up.

Did only a few tests today, with smaller maps than 50x50 and under 10000 points, but couldn't find junk terrain so far.

I was thinking, that maybe unit movement may contribute to the terrain screw-up. But as of now that's pure guesswork...

[zovs66]

Test 2
Human (US) vs AI (German)
June 44
Map: 80x100
15,000 points
Mission: Assault
Did not move the US, just plotted some OBA for several turns 1-6, then plotted air for turn 7. German air attack on turn 6. While the Fw-190's were attacking I saw some "Junk".
Turns ran: 7
See some junk.

Both of these tests were just random generated battles. Both also had both air and artillery.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by dTerm

Thx for the sum-up.

Did only a few tests today, with smaller maps than 50x50 and under 10000 points, but couldn't find junk terrain so far.

I was thinking, that maybe unit movement may contribute to the terrain screw-up. But as of now that's pure guesswork...

Anyone who tests this BE AWARE the results are inconsistant

Detailed above this test
70x70 map----- defend--15500 points------1 turn ran....... lots of arty ,smoke , air etc, etc-- lots of junk up to 4 hexes in from the west

I ran a number of others after that and wasn't seeing junk then I went back and redid this test exactly.........NO JUNK

[DRG]

There is MAYBE something here


The location of the junk is more or less opposite where smoke is but about 50 hexes away

Right now anything seems possible. I see it in one test but then another test I don't BUT if the location of the smoke on map has something to do with where the junk is it might be that my second test that did not show junk did not have smoke in the right place

Yeah that's weird....... but so is this bug

[DRG]

NOPE......... that didn't work

[zovs66]

At first I was thinking the junk has something to do with arty or air strikes. But I don't know. This one is hard to replicate.