AI spell casting priorities - Page 8

Niarg · #71 May 16th, 2008, 09:34 AM

Is there any way of ensuring that a reasonable number of gems are used for each spell.

I had an E4 tartarian with earth boots and wanted it to cast earthpower, curse of stones, earthquake, earthquake so I gave it 10 gems. By my calculations each casting should take 3 gems and cost about 100 fatigue (dominion was drain 2) however in practice the ai used up all of my gems in two turns.

I appreciate that you don't usually want to go over 200 fatigue but my tartarian had easily enough hp to cope with taking the direct hp loss. As it turned out I won the battle anyway and the one cast of earthquake hurt me far more than it hurt my opponent so maybe it wasn't too bad a thing that I didn't get the second cast off, however would there be any chance that the gems used could take into account what has been scripted and leave the necessary gems to complete the script even if it looks like it should be overridden.

Sombre · #72 May 16th, 2008, 09:58 AM

I have no idea how a E4 mage used 10 gems. That goes against everything I know regarding gem usage.

thejeff · #73 May 16th, 2008, 10:08 AM

Well, with Earthpower he's a E6 mage, so he could use them in 2 turns. I can't remember how many gems Curse of stones cost, but if it's 3 as well, he should be able to use 4 gems for that and for Earthquake, leaving him with 2 -- not enough for the second earthquake.

That's assuming I'm remembering the rule about only one more gem than the cost correctly. I think I've seen that not hold, if so, he'd happily use the full 6 gems casting Curse, then cast one Earthquake with the remaining 4.

Sombre · #74 May 16th, 2008, 10:12 AM

I was told casters could never use more gems than their level in the appropriate path. That must mean in a single casting then? I thought it meant for the entire battle.

thejeff · #75 May 16th, 2008, 10:22 AM

Definitely in a single casting.

(And I'm not entirely sure about that. I could swear I've seen B1 mages burn 2 slaves at once.)

sansanjuan · #76 May 16th, 2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Twan said:

He overwrited breath of winter to cast summon imp, getting 102 fatigue (by chance his natural reinvigoration allowed him to recover and win against the weak ennemy PD, but with more opposition it would have been sure death) .

Ditto here.
-SSJ

Humakty · #77 May 16th, 2008, 11:28 AM

Is blood magic under the same limits than other magics regarding gem/slaves usage ?

Meglobob · #78 May 16th, 2008, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Humakty said:
Is blood magic under the same limits than other magics regarding gem/slaves usage ?

Yes, 1 blood slave per level in blood just like gems AFAIK.

MaxWilson · #79 May 16th, 2008, 12:06 PM

Quote:

thejeff said:
Well, with Earthpower he's a E6 mage, so he could use them in 2 turns. I can't remember how many gems Curse of stones cost, but if it's 3 as well, he should be able to use 4 gems for that and for Earthquake, leaving him with 2 -- not enough for the second earthquake.

That's assuming I'm remembering the rule about only one more gem than the cost correctly. I think I've seen that not hold, if so, he'd happily use the full 6 gems casting Curse, then cast one Earthquake with the remaining 4.

I think you're thinking of this passage, on p. 89: "By using a magic gem, a caster gains one skill level in that magic path. This can be used both to allow a mage to cast a spell for which he would not normally have the skill, or to reduce the fatigue of a spell, or both. However, a mage may never increase his skill level by more than one by using gems, or gain skill in a path in which he or she did not already have at least one skill." Translation: you can spend as many gems as you have path levels, and each extra gem you spend beyond the minimum raises your skill level by 1--but the full, boosted skill level only counts for fatigue calculations. For purposes of which spells you can cast, your boosted level is capped at +1.

I'm quite certain I've seen D9 casters blow 5 or 6 gems on Shadow Blast. It's quite annoying. Gem management is the primary reason I stick mostly to gemless spells. It's not that I can't afford it, but I hate the micromanagement of gem-shuffling, and also the unpredictability (if I want one A8 caster to cast Fog Warriors AND Wrathful Skies, how many gems do I need to give him? If I give him the minimum 5, he'll probably blow them all on Fog Warriors so Wrathful Skies never gets cast. If I guess high and give him 15, he'll blow them all anyway).

I guess I'd really like to know why and when units decide to use gems they're holding.

-Max

thejeff · #80 May 16th, 2008, 01:11 PM

I'm actually basing this on several extensive discussions here, which resulted in the conclusion that the passage you quoted was misleading. Particularly here, where KO says so explicitly.

There have been several reports and a couple of incidents I've seen since that make me think those conclusions may not be true. If so, then the only limit on gem use is based on your level. (And I'm only 95% sure on that.)

My suspicion is that casters will use gems to try to keep their fatigue below 100. I had one Crone recently who I had scripted for Arrow Fend, Strength of Gaia, Mass Regen, with just enough gems for the gem costs. (I was using Bards with Soothing Song to drop her fatigue.) So in the second round her fatigue was in the 90s and she used at least one gem casting Strength, keeping her from casting the Regen. In an earlier battle I'd had another Crone start with Strength of Gaia and Mass Regen, and she did them fine, wasting no gems on the booster.

I can't really imagine a D9 caster using multiple gems on Shadow Blast though, unless he'd cast something big first and was already heavily fatigued.

I'll use the BF gem spells, but I won't try to spam things like Shadow Blast. Maybe one to start off. And I'll try to have a caster for each spell to avoid wasting extra gems.
If I had to, I'd assume they were going to use the max on the first spell and give gems to cover that.