OT: Alien Contact

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Why the heck does Atrocities keep creating threads that spiral out of control?

Now there is a good question...

He does have a talent for pushing buttons, doesn't he? This thread is only a few hours old and it's pages long already!

[Fyron]

When man believe that the world was flat, the Bible clearly stated it was round. (Not a issue of prediction but showing how if man would have looked into the Bible before thinking the world was flat, they would've realized it wasn't.)

Actually, a lot of people did believe that the earth was round long before the Bible was ever written.

It was foretold that the Messiah (Jesus) would come through the line of David. If you look at Jesus' liniage you will find that he did indeed come through the line of David.

Ok. Now you are taken what is written in the Bible as proof of the Bible's validity. That is a huge logical fallacy.

It was foretold that Jerusalem would be destroyed in one night by the Babylon army, those that survived would be carried off into exile for 70 years and then return to their homeland to restore their city. This in fact did happen

Babylon fell into ruin milennia before the Bible was written. How could a Babylonian army sack a city after Babylon is gone?

Aloofi, I am very much aware of "Post-dition" and "pre-diction," and the Bible is not a book of post-diction. It was written well over 2000 years ago and has not been changed one bit.

Sure it has. Books are always changed at least a little bit in translations, whether it is intentional or not.

If you study that verse a bit more, you'll come to see that you are taking that verse a bit too literally.
You will also see that the meaning of the verse indicates that the city will be completely and utterly destroyed.

So now you alter what the Bible means to fit in with the facts of what happened later. Very good evidence, if you ask me. Randomly varying interpretations of the Bible can not be used to say whether it is right nor not.

You are correct in saying he is not the son of man. God put the embryo(sp?) into his mother Mary. His adoptive father (Joseph) was through the line of David. Thus, he could be said to have come thorugh the line of King David.

Well... in the Reality that the rest of us live in, that doesn't happen. Everyone has a human father and human mother. Some guy named Jesus most likely lived, but Joseph was either his biological father, or someone that Mary cheated with is his biological father. Immaculate conception is 100% impossible, and you are using flawed evidence to support flawed claims. Another logical fallacy.

quote:
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Originally posted by Aloofi:
None of the "predictions" of the new testament have ever ocurred. Not even one.
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By your saying that, is basically saying that proven secular history did not even happen. The fall of Babylon for example.

No it doesn't. There is no basis of comparison between the two things.

[ February 26, 2003, 22:30: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Aloofi:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ragnarok:
[]If you study that verse a bit more, you'll come to see that you are taking that verse a bit too literally.
You will also see that the meaning of the verse indicates that the city will be completely and utterly destroyed.

If you don't take thing literaly then anything can mean anything.
For example, did you know that the New Testament quotes from the Book of Enoch, a book known to have been written centuries after the events it describes and that is not part of the Old Testament as if it were part of it?.
Check the letter of John if you don't believe me.

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Anything and not mean anything. That is only if you look at one verse and one verse only to try and get the meaning of it. To understand the Bible you must look through the whole thing and derive how it is speaking. Some parts of the Bible are literal, others are sybolic, it all depends on the context it is in.

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
[QBBy your saying that, is basically saying that proven secular history did not even happen. The fall of Babylon for example.[/QB]

The fall of Babylon was long before the New Testament.
I said: None of the predictions from the New Testament.

The Old Testament is too old to try to put it against history. Not good records back then.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Actually, a lot of people did believe that the earth was round long before the Bible was ever written.

Yes, some people did believe this. But mankind in general was what I was driving at.

Ok. Now you are taken what is written in the Bible as proof of the Bible's validity. That is a huge logical fallacy.

My mistake. But did come true, did it not?
I gave other examples to make up for that.

Sure it has. Books are always changed at least a little bit in translations, whether it is intentional or not.

Granted. But those changes that are unintentionally made are not huge changes that will change the Bibles meaning all together.

Originally posted by Aloofi:
The Old Testament is too old to try to put it against history. Not good records back then.

In the new testiment parts of it are still being fulfilled down to this day. The new testiment brought out that we would see multitudes of bad things happening in the Last days. These things are indeed happening. You may say that they have always happened. Granted they have, but not to the extent that they are right now.

Stop posting until I am done with my post.

Sorry.

Well... in the Reality that the rest of us live in, that doesn't happen. Everyone has a human father and human mother. Some guy named Jesus most likely lived, but Joseph was either his biological father, or someone that Mary cheated with is his biological father. Immaculate conception is 100% impossible, and you are using flawed evidence to support flawed claims. Another logical fallacy.

It is perfectly possible when you are dealing with the Almighty himself. He can do anything he pleases.

Like I said before, you believe what you believe, and likewise with me. I do not wish to argue/discuss this any further.

This has totally changed topic from where this thread started.
But I have to take off for a while. I will be back later tonight.

[ February 26, 2003, 22:33: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

[Fyron]

Stop replying until I am done with my post.

edit: ok, now that post is done.

[ February 26, 2003, 22:30: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Aloofi]

Guys, do you want another mandy to light it up?

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Aloofi:
Guys, do you want another mandy to light it up?

Thanks!
Doesn't really help but hey.
As far as I'm concerned this topic is over. This thread can now go back to discussing aliens.

[Fyron]

Yes, some people did believe this. But mankind in general was what I was driving at.

The people living around the people writing the Bible, sure. But, many ancient cultures believed the world was round. Pretty much all of the people in those cultures believed that. Mankind in general was torn 50/50 between the two beliefs.

My mistake. But did come true, did it not?

Almost all (if not all) of that stuff was written after the fact. It was not prediction, it was postdiction.

I gave other examples to make up for that.

No they don't. They are all flawed.

In the new testiment parts of it are still being fulfilled down to this day. The new testiment brought out that we would see multitudes of bad things happening in the Last days. These things are indeed happening. You may say that they have always happened. Granted they have, but not to the extent that they are right now.

This has totally changed topic from where this thread started.
But I have to take off for a while. I will be back later tonight.[/QB]

No they aren't. What are some examples of these things that are supposedly happening?

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Do you think that it is possible for Earth to have been or is going to be visited by an Alien race?

What do you think would be our response now given all of the hype that Sci-fi shows, books, and movies has generated. Would we be open minded and accept them as friends, if they come in peace, or would we be secptical and be threatened by them?

First and foremost, I do not believe that Earth has ever been visited by Aliens, nor do I ever believe we will be. I do believe that life may exsist else where in the universe, but I do not believe it is wide spread. I feel that Earth is a fragile bio-sphere, and that all life on Earth is a trillion to one happenstance.

If for some reason we were contacted by alien life, then I think we would fear it, but accept it. I think a few nutball goobers might try and mock it up, but overall the people of our world would accept the new reality without wanting to blow it to hell.

That is say for the ultra fanatical religious types and ultra paranoid "the sky is falling" fruit cakes of the world.

Whoooeee, you have a talent for starting discussions. Have you ever considered getting a job as a talk show host?

I think it's barely possible that earth has been visited in the past by 'aliens' from other solar systems. Given the difficulty of travel between the stars, especially the time scale of it, it would most likely have been in an era when there weren't even 'proto' humans to witness it. The 'little green men' would most likely have seen dinosaurs and ferns when they visited. And it's not likely that any other 'visitors' will arrive in any historical time that we can imagine.

Of course, statistics are only attempts to model reality. What really happens is what really happens and that's why bookies and insurance adjusters often have to pay up. If we saw real live 'aliens' arrive I think it'd be a huge shock to the world. Yes, many people would panic, and many people would proclaim the 'new age' of enlightened life in the galactic community. Which reaction was justified would depend on the actual character of the aliens, of course. But the actual long-term effect on our civilization would probably be more like the effect that 'discovery' has had on the various isolated primitive tribes that we've heard about in the Last century or so. Have you ever noticed how that goes? They learn about the huge, complex, confusing world out here and their own world-view is bLasted to dust. They lose motivation and incentive in their old system, as their religion and 'economy' such as it is collapses. I think something similar would happen to the whole world if we were suddenly exposed to a new context including intelligent life beyond earth. Not just because various 'fundamentalists' would be confounded in their view of humans on earth as somehow 'special' either. I think it would rattle the materialists as much as the fundamentalists.

For this reason, I think the 'conspiracy theories' about government cover-up of alien contact is not so outlandish as some have assumed. IF there were in fact clear evidence of extra-terrestrial civilizations I think the govt. would do just that out of fear of our society collapsing. They too have seen what happened to various isolated cultures here on earth when they were 'discovered' by the larger world...

[ February 26, 2003, 22:40: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]