Tartanians

[vfb]

B0rsuk said:
When a small number of spells completely dominates the (end)game, it limits viable strategic options in the game. For me, fewer viable options = worse game. Other (than death or astral) magic paths also very high-level spells, which require lots of gems, strong mages and research. If cost of a spell doesn't even remotely correlate to its value, something is very wrong. (I tried Creeping Doom yesterday)

I just tried Creeping Doom too. My ants got buffed post-summons, so survivability was not so bad, but they're way too slow to have any impact at all.

It would be really nice if they appeared out of the ground near the enemy, instead of clustered at the caster.

[hnchrist3]

You MUST acquire The Chalice.

You didn't say what nation you play, but as Ermor, I go for Construction-4 (for the skull mentor), and then to Conjuration-8 (for Well-of-Misery), and then back to Construction for the level-8 privilege of unique items, of which "The Chalice" is my top choice, followed by "The Ark", followed by the "Sword of Injustice."

The Chalice will heal the feeble-mindedness of the Tartarians which will not only allow them to be commanders, but in the interrim, to research on the side!

Without a means of healing a Tartarian, they are useless.
(Grab the Chalice.)

[Lingchih]

No, won't work. If you sway away from construction in MP, you will not get the Chalice. Too many players go straight for it. You will only get it by Wishing.

[B0rsuk]

vfb said:

I just tried Creeping Doom too. My ants got buffed post-summons, so survivability was not so bad, but they're way too slow to have any impact at all.

It would be really nice if they appeared out of the ground near the enemy, instead of clustered at the caster.

For a single Creeping Doom you can cast Swarm twice. It's cheaper in all ways: fatigue, gems, research, paths. I don't think you can beat Swarm at its own game. And that's not the point. The spell has 'doom' in it's name, which is either a very strong word, or Kristoffer's humor. I think they are supposed to deal some damage. Unbuffed (I didn't see a point considering they have so low hp etc) they couldn't kill or even harm a single barbarian. 70+ (NNNN) ants versus 30 ordinary barbarians. Barbs do have some protection, but quite low. What am I supposed to use the spell against ? I think they're meant to be used as a weapon, too. Otherwise why give them weak poison ? Thematic reasons ? I think they should have an AN weapon, their damage is 0 and str is pitiful. Summon Animals can actually kill stuff...
Another disadvantage of the ants is that they seem to act as a single squad and are not very good at swarming.

[Lingchih]

Swarm is a very nice spell indeed. Especially when spammmed. Those dragonflies can actually kill SCs, when you cast enough of them.

[DonCorazon]

Lingchih said:
No, won't work. If you sway away from construction in MP, you will not get the Chalice. Too many players go straight for it. You will only get it by Wishing.

Dohh...here is another one these universal strategies. So are most veterans in MP going straight to Construction 8?

I tend to get Const 4 for skull mentors then go for Thaum 2, Evo 2, Conj 2, for site searching. I bounce around a lot to try different spells that seem useful. I have not gone past Const 6 in any of my MP games yet. A couple I am doing well in on the score graphs are in the turn 50ish stage but now I have a feeling I am going to get smoked big time with Tartarians and Chalices. In Capuchin, Everz' Tartarian has already been spotted eyeballing my shores, and Zeldor is shopping his Chalice in Epikbattel. Oh the horror...

I rarely make clams either. Am I completely nonthreatening?
I may just keep playing in the noob games for years, like the guy who never makes it past 6th grade.

[Lingchih]

No, not necessarily. If you can cast Gift of Health and hold it up, that will heal your Tartarians better than anything, even the Chalice. The problem is in holding it up, when other player see what you are doing.

The Nature nations have the least trouble doing this, but they are not very good at creating a Tartarian factory.

[B0rsuk]

DonCorazon said:
Dohh...here is another one these universal strategies. So are most veterans in MP going straight to Construction 8?

And it's exactly what keeps me from trying MP. It sounds like 90% of spells and units are not used in MP. Is it all about elephants, thugs, SC's, mages ?
(Another thing is that I'm simply not familiar enough with all the items and spells. I don't want to try MP before I finish my Wunderwaffe. )

[DonCorazon]

I actually find MP a blast, its just that the games take so long that as a noob, it takes you 3 months to realize that, while you may be one of the leaders in terms of provinces, gems, and research, you may actually have zero chance to win.

Nevertheless, I get a lot of enjoyment out of building my kingdom and humorously role-playing my nation in MP, but it is comically tragic when, as happened to me in Urapara, suddenly a single golem decked out in tons of gear appears and proceeds from province to province, obliterating huge armies with ease and wiping out all the progress that was achieved over the months.

Even still, I find SP much drier / less thoughtful and can rarely finish a game.

The ideal for me is like chess, its the most fun when played with someone around your same level. If only there were Dominions ratings for players....

[Zeldor]

DonCorazon:

Now you would be able to get Iron Golem and put gear on him and he could surely make a nice fight with my Golem