AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

[JLS]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Hmm... you changed the post I was replying to.

Absolutely, your explanation is right on.

We were typeing at the same time

[ September 07, 2003, 18:45: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Fyron]

Ok. If you want PDCs to be able to target mines, then PDCs should be given some sweeping ability (such as 1 for all levels, to allow specialized sweepers to still be useful), not the ship hulls. Otherwise, you are saying that PDC on a BS can target mines better than PDC on a number of DS or so, which to me makes 0 sense. I can understand that for AI considerations, giving their hulls some sweeping makes sense. But so would giving it to PDCs. They use PDCs on most ships, so they can still get plenty of sweeping capability that way.

[JLS]

Originally posted by Alneyan:
Mines are also supposed to be hidden (prevents active level 5 scanning and so on), so they should be cloacked devices deployed in an area and programmed to target any incoming hostile ship. It would make more sense than having stationary mines which could not possibly hit a ship in space. (Or it would be so unlikely that you would need the Heart of Gold) On the other hand, drones are more autonomous devices, I would picture drones as being dirigible missiles.

Excellent point

As for the gameplay, I would not advice you to allow the automatic "destruction" of mines for the player (after a certain number of ships). Wouldn't it actually weaken the AI? Or rather, why would you want to give this ability to the player? (I didn't see the reason in your previous Posts, but since there are so much Posts in this thread, I might have overlook it)

This is good advice, Alneyan.
Yes, it would have an effect on the AI or another Human Opponent.

So, you feel that the Ability should not be given to the Human Players Ships. Ok.

Alneyan, how about Carriers, with in theory many fighters that may take out mines, if they could achieve this effectively?

[ September 07, 2003, 19:44: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Fyron]

The problem wiht carriers and fighters is that the carriers hit the mines long before any fighters could be launched. Mines are invisible, afterall. Carriers certainly do not have their fighters out in space when they are travelling around, unless you actually launch them into space yourself. They can't because if the fighters were in space, they would not be able to use WPs, as fighters can not warp on their own.

[JLS]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Ok. If you want PDCs to be able to target mines, then PDCs should be given some sweeping ability (such as 1 for all levels, to allow specialized sweepers to still be useful), not the ship hulls. Otherwise, you are saying that PDC on a BS can target mines better than PDC on a number of DS or so, which to me makes 0 sense. I can understand that for AI considerations, giving their hulls some sweeping makes sense. But so would giving it to PDCs. They use PDCs on most ships, so they can still get plenty of sweeping capability that way.

I like this Fyron, it would be a great way to shore up the players anti-mine capabilities

[Fyron]

Perhaps make a "sweeping tech" that requires Mines 1. What it will do is give copies of the PDCs that have the sweeping ability. So, without it, you have PDC I-V without sweeping. With it, you get PDC I-V with sweeping. Otherwise, the impending uselessness of mines happens a lot earlier in the game, as it will be much cheaper to research. That, or just use the normal Mines tech as the tech grid, so Point Defense Weapons 1-5 give PDC I-V. Point Defense Weapons 1 + Mines 1 gives PDC I with sweeping. Point Defense Weapons 2 + Mines 2 gives PDC II with sweeping, and so on. This could get complicated though. It is up to you really, as it is your mod.

[JLS]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The problem wiht carriers and fighters is that the carriers hit the mines long before any fighters could be launched. Mines are invisible, afterall. Carriers certainly do not have their fighters out in space when they are travelling around, unless you actually launch them into space yourself. They can't because if the fighters were in space, they would not be able to use WPs, as fighters can not warp on their own.

Agreed, Fyron.

[ September 07, 2003, 19:23: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Perhaps make a "sweeping tech" that requires Mines 1. What it will do is give copies of the PDCs that have the sweeping ability. So, without it, you have PDC I-V without sweeping. With it, you get PDC I-V with sweeping. Otherwise, the impending uselessness of mines happens a lot earlier in the game, as it will be much cheaper to research. That, or just use the normal Mines tech as the tech grid, so Point Defense Weapons 1-5 give PDC I-V. Point Defense Weapons 1 + Mines 1 gives PDC I with sweeping. Point Defense Weapons 2 + Mines 2 gives PDC II with sweeping, and so on. This could get complicated though. It is up to you really, as it is your mod.

This is good stuff, thank you Fyron

[JLS]

But in theory, how about if Carriers, with many fighters could take out mines effectively before any damage to the Carrier.

If this could be feasible. In your opinion, (cloaking is not a problem because the pilots have there eye right on the target, no sensors required) would this feel realistic to you?



[ September 07, 2003, 19:24: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Alneyan]

Originally posted by JLS:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The problem wiht carriers and fighters is that the carriers hit the mines long before any fighters could be launched. Mines are invisible, afterall. Carriers certainly do not have their fighters out in space when they are travelling around, unless you actually launch them into space yourself. They can't because if the fighters were in space, they would not be able to use WPs, as fighters can not warp on their own.

Agreed, Fyron.

But in theory Alneyan, how about if Carriers, with many fighters could take out mines effectively before any damage to the Carrier.

Could this be feasible in your opinion, cloaking is not a problem because the pilots have there eye right on the target, no sensors required?

---

Hmm, I would differ with Fyron here, fighters could be launched in space during travels, at least a few of them to keep watch just in case. (Except if the goal is top speed of course) After that, all the fighters would be launched in a scramble to protect the ships from these ships. All the mines are not exactly close to each other, they should be spaced and when one spots enemy ships, they all close in their target(s), so the carriers could have time to launch the fighters. And of course, when you are in enemy territory, there should always be fighters launched.

On the gameplay side of the things, it would have to be tested of course, but this idea seems to be reasonable. (If the carriers are not better hulls for warships, apart from the Light Carrier in the very beginning of the game, but this one is only a temporary asset)

Fyron suggestion would also work, but as he said, it would become quite complicated. Fyron, let's say you have Mine III and PDC IV, the PDC available would be PDC III with Mine Sweeping and PDC IV without Mine Sweeping right? And would the efficiency of the Mine Sweeping ability increases or remains at one mine per turn?

[ September 07, 2003, 19:24: Message edited by: Alneyan ]