What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies

[DRG]

Originally Posted by MarkSheppard

Latest drone news...

...supposedly, the Ukrainians are now using robot boats to transport jammers into the middle of the Dneipr river to prevent Russian FPV Drone attacks on Ukrainian boats/troops crossing the Dneipr or on the other bank.

Previous attempts to protect crossings with fixed jammers resulted in said jammers eating Iskander-M SRBMs.

BMP-3s *may* get a built in drone jammer

https://twitter.com/Shaimurato13576/...01415154032934

Drones in the battlefield are now beginning to incorporate shielding to partially negate GPS jamming:

https://twitter.com/DanielR33187703/...21895138537964

Russian Drone workshops assembling drones in videos are now showing a metal can on a rod -- it appears to be a shielding device that protects GPS receivers from jamming coming from below, while the top is open, allowing GPS signals to be received.

[Suhiir]

And on the subject of drones/jammers/etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaWV...ist=WL&index=7
48:53

[MarkSheppard]

Originally Posted by DRG

The russians are making makeshift RF shields using workshop materials to match commercially available anti-interference shields for GPS receivers:



The idea is that it blocks signals coming from below the drone (likely to be jamming/interference) but the top (aka GPS signals) are clear.

Anyway. Some more drone stuff dropped -- we've got clear videos/pics of the russian minelaying UGVs

https://twitter.com/TheDeadDistrict/...05538697007109

https://twitter.com/sambendett/statu...61745172328769

Continuing the Russian DIY UGV thread - two more small UGVs in this videos: Su-4 small UGV for mining ops that is guided by a small drone, can deliver two 50kg bombs, was tested around Bakhmut, around 15 are at the front; and Su-6 larger UGV combat platform.

https://twitter.com/sambendett/statu...27667624198411

Apparently, Russian state media reports that the BRG-1 light UGV (see posts below) will get #AI installed for autonomous ops and greater working range, with tests to take place this October. Taking this with a grain of salt?

https://twitter.com/sambendett/statu...71031953379470

Apparently, according to Russian TASS state media, this BRG-1 UGV is now officially used by the military for evacuating injured and delivering supplies. Earlier test runs in a short thread below.

[MarkSheppard]

Another issue for 2025 and onwards is that we're seeing datalinks proliferate to the ground user.

One of the big reasons Ukraine's offensive slowed down was because of the KA-52 Black Shark fleet; specifically the newer model -- Ka-52M which has the LMUR (ЛМУР -- Легкая многоцелевая управляемая ракета) Legkaya Mnogotselevaya Upravlyayemaya Raketa, lit. 'Light Multipurpose Guided Rocket'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMUR

The LMUR is a big boy -- 100 kg and a 25 kg warhead (versus Hellfire's 50 kg and 9 kg warhead); but what makes it so dangerous is that it's the first real "digital/datalinked" weapon the Russians have and it has an extremely long range of 14.5 km.

LMUR has two modes:

Mode 1: The target is marked by the operator before launch, and the carrier helicopter can turn away directly after the missile launch -- essentially "fire and forget" Hellfire logic.

But what's new is Mode 2.

Mode 2: The missile is launched by the Ka-52M without on-board target lock. The LMUR flies towards a point selected by the operator; with GPS guidance and transmits what it's seeker sees back to the launching platform. The operator can then look at what the LMUR sees and select a target (or change it) while the missile is flying towards it.

LMUR is the only Russian ATGM capable of this -- and this Mode 2 is the only one in which it reaches the 14.5 km range.

In Ukraine, the Russians have used UAS Drones to spot enemy targets, with the target location/information being passed on to nearby Ka-52Ms who launch their LMURs into the blue (for them). This is extremely effective, because the Ka-52M can destroy targets without exposing themselves personally to Ukranian air defenses and LMUR's 14+ km range means they can stay out of range of a large portion of Ukranian air defenses.

Ukraine now has received an ATGM that operates upon the same "datalink" principles:

https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...o_ukraine.html

On November 9, Défense & Sécurité Internationale posted a tweet broadcasting a short speech by Lionel Royer-Perreaut, a member of the French National Assembly, during a hearing of the Defense Commission dedicated to the French military assistance to Ukraine. A delivery so far unnoticed, he confirmed the supply of Akeron MP ATGMs, among other weapon systems consisting mainly of Mistral air defense missiles, CAESAR self-propelled howitzers and TRF1 155mm towed howitzers.

Akeron MP operates much like LMUR -- Mode 1 (Fire & Forget) or Mode 2 (Post-Launch Targeting) -- so while an individual Akeron ATGM operator may not be able to see a target; he can be told via other methods that there's a target, and launch into the blind and target after launch.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by MarkSheppard

In Ukraine, the Russians have used UAS Drones to spot enemy targets, with the target location/information being passed on to nearby Ka-52Ms who launch their LMURs into the blue (for them). This is extremely effective because the Ka-52M can destroy targets without exposing themselves personally to Ukranian air defenses and LMUR's 14+ km range means they can stay out of range of a large portion of Ukranian air defenses.

The game already allows this .( more or less)

A recce Drone can be used to call in an NLOS weapon and a NLOS weapon can be carried by a Helo

...... the combination is very effective

What we don't have are Russian NLOS weapons and we don't use NLOS weapons as off-map assets

EDIT

What I can say now is off map NLOS units can be built and they work REALLY WELL with drones and they also Counter Battery very well

As in "Thunderbolts from Thors hammer Mjölnir" well

[DRG]

Something we need to identify as these weapons evolve is which would be or should be, classed as NLOS as opposed to just being a "normal" ATGM system or should there be one of each....a Mode 1 (Fire & Forget) and a Mode 2 (Post-Launch Targeting).

The issue is unit cost ( and weapon and unit slots ) two ATGM that are the same except one uses a multi charge ATGM weapns class so is a F&F/ Mode 1 unit and the other uses the designated NLOS weapons class--- the NLOS team will be roughly 100 points more expensive --but also more effective-- in the game when coupled with drone control

That said a NLOS unit can target as direct fire and NLOS so one NLOS unit would probably be simpler for everyone

[DRG]

Originally Posted by MarkSheppard

One of the big reasons Ukraine's offensive slowed down was because of the KA-52 Black Shark fleet; specifically the newer model -- Ka-52M which has the LMUR (ЛМУР -- Легкая многоцелевая управляемая ракета) Legkaya Mnogotselevaya Upravlyayemaya Raketa, lit. 'Light Multipurpose Guided Rocket'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMUR

The LMUR is a big boy -- 100 kg and a 25 kg warhead (versus Hellfire's 50 kg and 9 kg warhead); but what makes it so dangerous is that it's the first real "digital/datalinked" weapon the Russians have and it has an extremely long range of 14.5 km.

LMUR ?......... If that thing doesn't get code named ELMER I will be very surprised

[DRG]

There is info I can use for the game if anyone finds it..... so far I have struck out

1. How many Elmers can an KA-52 carry ?
   
2. If anyone finds a list of NLOS capable ATGM that includes Elmer post it, please.

Thanks

For now, temporary I figure since they weigh twice what the Vikir does it can carry half as many but that's just a WAG

[scorpio_rocks]

Looks like the Mi-28 carries 2 on each pylon in the places it is visible in the photos/vids here:
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ile-in-ukraine

"The helicopter carries two LMUR missiles on a twin APU-L rail on the outer pylon under the right wing; the other pylon is empty. It’s not possible to see exactly what’s hanging under the left wing, except for an extra fuel tank. In another video, published a few days earlier by the Ugolok_Sitha channel, a Mi-28NM is seen carrying one LMUR missile under its right wing (on an APU-L twin rail), with a B8V-20 rocket launcher and an additional fuel tank under the left wing."

so 2 for every 6 or 8 Vikhr / Ataka

[DRG]

OK. 4 works for me

EDIT

The caption for this is "The APU-L double rail for LMUR missiles."