Time for a poll. (The subject is abuse)

[Edi]

Hadrian_II said:
As for sending slave collars --> why is the labspace limited, or just pool forged items to the lab before items from message, and add a way to dump items from labs without to have to equip them first (as slave collars are cursed)

There already is one. Go to item lab directly (not through commander's item slots). Click on item and it will bring up a list of the commanders in the province to give it to. Last commander in the list is "Throw it away". This Commander Throw-it-away is the same one that appears when you transfer items between commanders and is usually the subject of much hurled abuse when he is given a Ring of Wizardry, Staff of the Elements or similar powerful and useful item...

[Hadrian_II]

Edi said:

There already is one. Go to item lab directly (not through commander's item slots). Click on item and it will bring up a list of the commanders in the province to give it to. Last commander in the list is "Throw it away". This Commander Throw-it-away is the same one that appears when you transfer items between commanders and is usually the subject of much hurled abuse when he is given a Ring of Wizardry, Staff of the Elements or similar powerful and useful item...

Nice to know

[Edratman]

Can someone explain "Filling lab with slave collars"? I'm a SP player and I can't even fathom the mechanics or how it would hurt an opponent.

[Hoplosternum]

lch said:

I'd thank him for the supply of slave collars, put it on indy commanders and send them against his mage-backed armies...

Why not just send them all back to him next turn

Does sound like abuse to me, but I am not sure how practical it would be?

[lch]

Edratman said:
Can someone explain "Filling lab with slave collars"? I'm a SP player and I can't even fathom the mechanics or how it would hurt an opponent.

Messages are sent before item forging occurs, which includes transfer of gems and magic items between nations. If somebody fills another's magic lab with slave collars (or any other item), then any items that he might have forged that turn get lost. And maybe it wasn't possible to throw away items directly from the magic lab in the past, so you had to put it on some commander to get rid of them - which would be a pain if it were slave collars (gives feeblemind and is cursed, i.e. you need a new commander every time).

[Kuritza]

For the communion thing, making slaves passive will render many nice mages like Astrapelagists or LA Marignon's seafaring mages (whatever) semi-useless, and others like Celestial masters quite average. Also, the nice synergy betweeen communion and sabbath is gonna suffer.
So if this communion thingie is gonna be fixed, make it so that 'slaves dont cast if at least one master has cast anything the same turn', not 'slaves dont cast spells at all'. Thus communions will become more balanced, but still usable. Otherwise they will exist perhaps for casting heavy BF enchantments only.

Regarding VotD - this spell goes against the logic and normal game mechanics. This exception should be fixed if only because there's no protection against it (as against the Mind hunt) and its selective. MR *will* fail you sooner or later, most likely sooner.

Immortal demons - gosh, its not OK and it wont ever be. These who advocate it are either clueless or abusers themselves. Dakini, for example, are damn dangerous even naked; make them immortal and Lanka becomes undefeatable period.

[Twan]

I'm a fan of reverse communions as well.

I think this possibility add to the game and isn't bad for balance of astral nations betwenn each others (nations with only S mages having other paths or good levels vs nations with ultra cheap S only professionnal communiants).

Alas it also adds a level of microgestion, which is never good, and strengthen an already (too?) powerful path even more.

I'd like if Illwinter can find a way to balance the reverse communion and reduce microgestion instead of simply making it impossible (ie : once the bug can be fixed, add a third communion spell to allow a mage to be an "active slave", with slightly increased requirements say S2 or 40 fatigue, allowing some form of reverse communion without the actual micro-gestion resulting from mages ID to consider).

[thejeff]

The other option for communions, even if they worked as designed, would be to retreat the masters after they'd cast their buffs and boosters. Or to attack with them

A "Remove from communion" spell that took a mage out of communion, but left any buff effects in place could work.

[Edi]

lch said:

Messages are sent before item forging occurs, which includes transfer of gems and magic items between nations. If somebody fills another's magic lab with slave collars (or any other item), then any items that he might have forged that turn get lost. And maybe it wasn't possible to throw away items directly from the magic lab in the past, so you had to put it on some commander to get rid of them - which would be a pain if it were slave collars (gives feeblemind and is cursed, i.e. you need a new commander every time).

Has anyone checked what the message limit is? It used to be 20 messages per turn total (so you could not get more than that even if more were sent to you). So far as throwing items away, it has always been there. As long as you go to the lab through F8, you can do it. Most of the time people go through a commander's item slots, in which case it equips the item and does not allow the option to throw away.

[Baalz]

Yes, the point about communions really illustrates my point that I think a lot of people don't really understand what I was getting at. We're playing the game as it is, not the game that was "intended" by the devs, whatever that means. Unintended does not mean broken, lots of times some of the most interesting interactions in games were probably unintended, the devs are not a perfect source of divine wisdom, they're just some cool guys who put together a bunch of stuff they thought would be cool and tweaked it until they felt like they had a fun game. Lots of people have commented they like the communion mechanic as it adds to the strategic depth and generally makes the game more fun. This is exactly how I feel about things like copying Bogus' commands and many other tricks that are arguably clever ways to take advantage of quirks in the game, do not unballance things and generally just add to the wonderful texture of this game. Game hosts should absolutely "ban" whatever they think will make a fun game from specific tactics to diplomacy to forging clams to casting Arcane Nexus. It's a pet peeve of mine that in most games people find the idea of using "exploits" abhorrent....yet basically this often boils down to after the fact trying to make up house rules of what is "intended" for the prefect version of the game.